Re: Do I need to upgrade to i1Profiler? With respect to UV
Re: Do I need to upgrade to i1Profiler? With respect to UV
- Subject: Re: Do I need to upgrade to i1Profiler? With respect to UV
- From: Claas Bickeböller <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:04:07 +0200
Dear Tom and all,
Regarding to your statement that one has to expect a bad inter-instrument agreement when comparing M1 to M0 type,
I must say that I cannot agree at all.
1. M1 is a well defined measurement mode compared to M0
2. The light source used in a M1 device has to be controlled and stable in order to be able to meet M1 conditions according to ISO 13655
Thus, one can expect a much better inter-instrument agreement using two M1 devices than two M0 devices.
At least this is what we, at Konica Minolta, see when we compare the performance of our FD-7 and FD-5 devices (which are the first M1 capable devices on the market) to the technical specifications published by vendors of M0 devices for the graphic arts industry.
I agree with you that you have to expect a bad inter instrument agreement when measuring FWA treated substrates and mixing M1 and M0 devices.
But that is similar as if mixing M2 (“UV-cut”) and M0 devices. This is simply a mistake in using the devices. Thus we have to carefully educate our customers how to use the measurement modes correctly and how they can benefit from having the opportunity measuring FWA treated papers correctly
(by means of using a measurement light source that corresponds to the viewing environment’s light source) for the very first time.
Using our FD-7 (not FD-5) you can measure the viewing environment's light source to be registered to the FD-7,
and then use this registered light source as a measurement light source for the reflection measurements. That means that you can not only use D50 as a measurement light source but also the exact light source you are using for your visual assessments in your viewing environment.
In addition, the registered light source can also be used as reference illuminant for the calculation of colour values (CIELAB or CIEXYZ). That means when using the registered light source for both, measurement light source and calculation illuminant, you can measure as you see.
The fact that UV content in today's used viewing booths are not equal to D50 is correct but almost all vendors of ISO3664 viewing cabinets have changed their light sources to meet ISO 3664:2009 so that one can expect to have the correct UV content in the field’s viewing environments soon.
Thanks for reading
Claas
Claas Bickeböller
Application Engineer
Graphic Imaging EMEA
Konica Minolta Sensing Europe B.V.
Swiss Branch Dietikon
Riedstrasse 6
CH - 8953 Dietikon
Phone: +41 43 322 98 04
Mobile: +41 79 861 71 77
Fax: +41 43 322 98 09
E-mail: email@hidden
Website:http://www.konicaminolta.eu
Am 10.04.2011 um 14:26 schrieb Tom Lianza:
> Hi Mike,
>
> The whole UV issue is like a wound that won't stop itching. The inclusion
> of optical brighteners in papers has led to a demand for "specified" amounts
> of UV in the measurement path. There are now four ISO measurement modes:
> M0 - traditional tungsten illumination
> M1 - illumination simulating D50 and/or matching the UV content of D50
> relative to the visible portion
> M2 - UV cut: minimal or no uv in the illumination sample
> M3 - Crossed polarized and UV cut in the illumination beam.
>
> The goal of the M1 specification is to provide the illumination that
> simulates the standard viewing conditions. It is not easy to control the
> specific amount of UV without careful tuning and frankly M1, in my opinion
> will add to confusion and cause greater instrument to instrument
> disagreement. Given the fact that most viewing booths do not meet the UV
> characteristics of D50, the M1 condition will lead to greater disagreement
> between visual and instrument assessment.
>
> Isis is much older than the new specification, and hence, its design was
> aimed at helping solve the problem in a different way. If you look at the
> OBA module we provide, there are visible standards that are used to
> correlate the iSis measurements with a specific media in a specific booth.
> The goal here is to fold the effect of UV AS VISUALLY INTERPRETED, back into
> the profile.
>
> I am in the process of writing a White Paper on this subject for the ICC. I
> hope you see that this is not " dictated by devious instrument design
> logic", but rather, a case of the instrument design preceding the ISO
> specification AND a desire to actually solve the problem in real life.
>
> Take care
> Tom Lianza
> Co Chair ICC
> Director Advanced Development R&D X-rite
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/10/11 4:38 AM, "Mike Strickler" <email@hidden> wrote:
>
>> Random observations about all this, as if anyone cares:
>>
>> 1. No one "needs" to upgrade, if that's the right word. There is no plan to
>> confiscate your PM5 or Monaco. They're both working for now, at least on 10.6,
>> and later on you can keep a copy on an old Mac or PC. What a crisis.
>>
>> 2. Colorport works, but what a dreadful user experience! Like Brookhurst
>> Avenue in Anaheim, CA, an incoherent jumble of signs and ugly typography. Like
>> Windows, come to think of it. The same with Monaco, actually. Nice profiles,
>> but an interface only an engineer can love. (I hope you're not reading this,
>> George.) The best thing about the new software is that it grabbed some of
>> Monaco's best features, like the flexible black generation curve, and rolled
>> it up with the Profilemaker/EyeOne usability and lovely interface. Then, for
>> some reason, they stopped short and left us with Colorport for measuring?
>> Doesn't fit the philosophy or aesthetics. Maybe they ran out of time.
>>
>> 3. On Monaco's supposed supremacy over PM5 (from Marc): For some things,
>> maybe, but I could never demonstrate that it made a better printer profile,
>> not visually, not by the numbers. I know the features and why they should be
>> better, including Intelligent Black. It was so cool! Problem is, I was always
>> able to duplicate these effects in PM5 very closely (and those of some very
>> brainy ink-savings programs as well). Maybe I'm just not smart enough to
>> appreciate the advantages, don't have the palate, you might say. X-Rite
>> apparently thought both programs needed improvement, thus Prism.
>>
>> 4. Marc, we've already been told that iterative L*a*b* profile optimization
>> doesn't work, and we must accept it, regardless the evidence. Please get with
>> the program, so to speak. I will be refusing all prompts to optimize.
>>
>> 5. A major crime remains unredressed with this release, or has it? The
>> wondrous iSis, jewel in the i1 crown, runs at half-speed for those who insist
>> on including ultra violet in their measurements as it doggedly adds a second
>> pass in UV-cut mode (technically no-UV-included, as there's no UV to cut). Can
>> someone finally tell us why UV-filtering freaks get the only fast mode? Why is
>> this the default in this day and age? Is this dictated by devious instrument
>> design logic? Is a UV-excluded pass perversely needed to simulate the UV?
>> Anyone? Marc? Ray Cheydleur?
>>
>> 6. No one has griped about the lack of a scanner profiling module. A
>> no-brainer, this one: Scanner operators are real men, and they don't whine.
>> They also tend not to believe in color management, and now they've been paid
>> back by being officially obsoleted. (Note to Epson/Silverfast owners: Do not
>> reply; you do not own a scanner.)
>>
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