Re: Colormanagement: Bugs, bugs, bugs ... :-(
Re: Colormanagement: Bugs, bugs, bugs ... :-(
- Subject: Re: Colormanagement: Bugs, bugs, bugs ... :-(
- From: edmund ronald <email@hidden>
- Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:12:02 +0100
Tom,
I'm sure some of us in the open source community would be delighted
to contribute create some simple test tools.
Let me go back to the ICC workflow philosophy:
- It was assumed that every user would be responsible for her workflow.
- the USER is supposed to calibrate her screen, the user is supposed
to choose decent color defaults for Photoshop, and the correct editing
space, the user is supposed to know how to set up her system to print
a profiling target (!), the user is supposed to understand
color-language well enough to choose a rendering, the user is supposed
to navigate page after page of print dialog and correctly select the
right options without making a mistake etc.
- And the user is supposed to be able to detect color issues by
herself, with the unaided eye if they ever manifest, select with
unerring the vendor responsible for issues and by concise accurate
verbal descriptions convince the highly qualified and patient tech
support that this bug is real and that vendor's problem.
Now, in the ideal world, somewhere over the rainbow, a quick set of
agreed-upon diagnostics would isolate either a user mis-operation or
(God forbid!) a real bug.
In the real world, one gets what Dilbert calls a guarantee that "We
will blame another vendor within 48 hours".
I remember a spectro from a certain major manufacturer that arrived at
my location transport-damaged. It took me several days to isolate the
issue with the resulting profiles to the spectro, whose diagnostics
software did not detect an issue. A single sheet of paper, measured at
the factory, and shipped with the device, would have put the problem
to rest within thirty seconds.
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Tom Lianza <email@hidden> wrote:
> Hi Edmund,
>
> I am and enduser, myself, and I completely agree, however this is a lot of
> work. If you take a look at the altona Test Suit, you will see just how
> extensive and expensive it can get. I don't have a problem with public
> tests. SampleICC is open and available to everyone. The "free" part can
> get to be hard because of the resources required to get the work done. I
> will try to get some support at the next ICC meeting.
>
> Regards,
> Tom
>
>
> On 1/31/11 10:32 AM, "edmund ronald" <email@hidden> wrote:
>
>> Tom,
>>
>> Thank you for your kind reply.
>>
>> I find it commendable that you have definitely noticed that end-user
>> workflows are unravelling.
>>
>> This means that an increasing number of buggy or non-interoperable
>> implementations have reached the market.
>>
>> I believe that managers at the various vendors would react favorably
>> to an "official test-suite". By incorporating the tests as a
>> development milestone, they could avoid latter support costs and
>> customer complaints.
>>
>> At the moment the color workflow descriptions are so obscure that
>> only specialists can understand them and sometimes locate the bugs. A
>> test suite would offer management at vendors a clear way to specify
>> the minimal required quality of an implementation. Surely this would
>> be a nice instance of "Vendor Outreach"?
>>
>> And a test suite should be public, because in the end those with the
>> most need for help with color are the third-party devs with small
>> resources for testing.
>>
>> Edmund
>>
>>
>>
>>> With regard to test tools, we have a number of them but there are certain
>>> trade mark and legal requirements that must be followed. For instance, we
>>> need to review and clarify the copyrights inside profiles that are used in
>>> test targets. We have this issue with the profile registry and we need to
>>> get clear release from the owners of the intellectual property.
>>>
>>> Now with respect to the use of the word "embarrass": Honorable Organizations
>>> don't get embarrassed by mistakes. Everyone wants their products to work
>>> well. The problem is allocating the resources and planning to correct the
>>> mistakes. The priorities of certain companies may not align with the
>>> priorities of customers, that is a fact of life.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/31/11 8:55 AM, "edmund ronald" <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jan-Peter
>>>> Our forum archives at http://lists.color.org/pipermail/icc_users/
>>>> show we haven't had a post since October!
>>>> The colorsync list and above all the openicc lists, and various
>>>> vendor and photography forums seem much more active. Maybe up to now
>>>> the ICC effort to engage the public hasn't been very effective? How
>>>> come we are having this discussion here and not there ? :)
>>>>
>>>> Edmund
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 2:39 PM, Jan-Peter Homann
>>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Edmund and all,
>>>>> The ICC already has the ICC-users forum, which is open for the public and
>>>>> monitored by ICC members.
>>>>>
>>>>> Further creation of test-tools can be discussed here.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.color.org/icc_users.xalter
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards
>>>>> Jan-Peter
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 31.01.11 14:25, schrieb edmund ronald:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Throw open the ICC windows and let in some fresh air. My suggestion:
>>>>>> create a technical forum where both end-users and engineers could
>>>>>> post. Let anyone attend meetings. And, finally PLEASE provide some
>>>>>> test tools, even though applying them to ICC members software might
>>>>>> embarrass!
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ---------- Please note the new adress --------------
>>>>>
>>>>> homann colormanagement --------- fon +49 30 611 075 18
>>>>> Jan-Peter Homann ------------ mobile +49 171 54 70 358
>>>>> Cotheniusstr. 3 -------- http://www.colormanagement.de
>>>>> 10407 Berlin -------- mailto:email@hidden
>>>>>
>>>>>
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