Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 15
Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 15
- Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 15
- From: Axel Robert <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2017 08:41:01 +0000
- Thread-topic: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 15
1. Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 11 (Graeme Gill)
Hello Graeme, what approach do you suggest? Do you think about Device Link profile?
Whenever this method, should the result not be better with V4 ICC profiles instead of V2?
Axel
On 07/03/2017 21:00, "colorsync-users-bounces+axel.robert=email@hidden on behalf of email@hidden" <colorsync-users-bounces+axel.robert=email@hidden on behalf of email@hidden> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 11 (Graeme Gill)
2. Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 14 (Malcolm Mackenzie)
3. Re: FOGRA52 & i1Profiler [subject corrected] (Martin Orpen)
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2017 18:15:26 +1100
From: Graeme Gill <email@hidden>
To: "email@hidden"
<email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 11
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Axel Robert wrote:
> I’m trying to answer according what I already read about the V4 ICC profiles. This is
> related to the ICC White paper#2 March 2014: using the sRGB_ICC_v4_appearance.icc
> profile and White Paper #26 Using the sRGB_v4_ICC_preference.icc profile.
>
> They both indicate a better use of rendering intents when comes the time to separate
> from RGB to CMYK and a more precise definition of the PCS.
There have been various attempts to show the potential of using the PRMG, but:
1) There's nothing to stop someone using the PRMG in a V2 profile. Indeed,
some existing V2 profilers may have been doing something quite similar,
and maybe the PRMG was an attempt to formalize this approach.
2) You can get even better gamut mapping results by creating a gamut
mapping for a specific source profile -> destination profile combination,
avoiding any intermediate Gamut. This doesn't require V4.
Graeme Gill.
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2017 10:45:58 +0000
From: Malcolm Mackenzie <email@hidden>
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 14, Issue 14
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Hi Martin
I did a few tests in i1P and confirm your findings.
The "Intelligent Black" feature does odd thing when it thinks TAC should be
low and the Max K separation/width is
contributing to the low yellow. I've had issues with the settings for
digital as have others online.
I remade the profile with the same data and it was fine, so it's an i1P
thing.
I've never got an answer or seen one from X-Rite on the issue.
Malcolm
+44 (0)20 3239 3330
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On 6 March 2017 at 20:00, <email@hidden> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: FOGRA52 & i1Profiler (Martin Orpen)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 13:44:12 +0000
> From: Martin Orpen <email@hidden>
> To: "'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List"
> <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: FOGRA52 & i1Profiler
> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> > On 1 Mar 2017, at 00:21, Martin Orpen <email@hidden> wrote:
> >
> > I’ve made some MaxK and Full Black profiles using both the supplied
> FOGRA52.mxf and by importing the raw ECI data and they produce a Y channel
> that has next to nothing in it if you use the profiles in Photoshop.
>
>
> I guess that FOGRA52 isn’t that popular then?
>
> The PSO Uncoated v3 (FOGRA52) profile documentation says:
>
>
> The profile was created using the Heidelberg Color
> Tool 17 with the following settings:
> black length 9 (starting point 10%)
> black width 10
> total dot area 300%
> maximum black 96%
>
>
> I can’t get yellow values anywhere near those generated by this profile
> using i1Profiler or ArgyllCMS.
>
> And nothing even remotely close to the neutral curves of the Heidelberg
> perceptual rendering.
>
> So I gave up and separated to a custom built FOGRA47L instead and then
> proofed the job to FOGRA52.
>
> I find it odd that the dark patch on the ECI/BVDM Gray Control Strip for
> FOGRA52 is C62 M55 Y60 — an ink combination that the ICC profile is
> incapable of producing...
>
> --
> Martin Orpen
> Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2017 11:51:45 +0000
From: Martin Orpen <email@hidden>
To: "'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List"
<email@hidden>
Subject: Re: FOGRA52 & i1Profiler [subject corrected]
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> On 7 Mar 2017, at 10:45, Malcolm Mackenzie <email@hidden> wrote:
>
> I did a few tests in i1P and confirm your findings.
> The "Intelligent Black" feature does odd thing when it thinks TAC should be
> low and the Max K separation/width is
> contributing to the low yellow. I've had issues with the settings for
> digital as have others online.
> I remade the profile with the same data and it was fine, so it's an i1P
> thing.
> I've never got an answer or seen one from X-Rite on the issue.
Malcolm
I also used ArgyllCMS and the results were the same, so I think that the Heidelberg software (or the operators) are editing out some of the FOGRA52 data.
The neutral curves of the “official” profile have a distinctive relative intent shape at L30 where cyan exceeds black and yellow drops away. But the drop is only from 42.8% to 40.6% where it is artificially held in a straight line.
i1Profiler and Argyll create high GCR profiles which max out with yellow somewhere around 15% which then drops to zero as the cyan values climb steeply.
I think that the data either needs editing or an explanation of why the Heidelberg software is able to create a profile that can’t be matched by other profile making apps.
The FOGRA51 data is isn’t much better either, but easier to spot why it’s problematic when it contains readings like this:
c100.0 m100.0 y0.0 k100.0 = L11.43 a5.76 b0.01
c100.0 m100.0 y100.0 k100.0 = L12.71 a0.53 b4.89
Regards
--
Martin Orpen
Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
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