RE: Fogra 51 and 52
RE: Fogra 51 and 52
- Subject: RE: Fogra 51 and 52
- From: Roger Breton via colorsync-users <email@hidden>
- Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 09:45:32 -0400
Dear Rafik,
At some point, I will buy the idea that "some" data had to be brought in to
build the Fogra51 profile, and it only makes sense that the data was the result
of averaging a number of measurements from popular M1 instruments such as the
ones you (Hanno) enumerated below :
> "The original M1 measurement data for FOGRA51 (6 test prints, 6
> printers, 4 papers; all measured by 4 devices - i1pro2, fd7, exact,
> spectrodens)..."
This development reminds me of the way the original SWOP TR-001:1995 dataset
was arrived at, out of an average of 12 sheets, 4 measured by X-Rite, 4
measured by Kodak (not 100% sure?) and 4 measured by Gretag (SPM-100). It was
an average of "selected sheets", ones that were closest in terms of SWOP's
target solid ink densities and dot gain on Champion TextWeb #5 coated paper.
Now, is Fogra51 a "straight" averaging of M1 measurements? It's possible that,
through averaging, some of the "outliers" fall into place and the resulting
data becomes "smoother", mathematically. It's very possible. In my own practice
and those of many users I know, averaging a number of sheets helps catch the
"centroid" of the system behavior.
But it's possible and likely that the data was also smoothed on top of being
averaged. *And* what I find more likely is that the averaged and smoothed data
was also "edited" synthetically, using advanced tools, we, mere mortal color
users don't have access to, in order to "align" with existing data for
historical or other considerations.
Yet, I gather that the data was extensively tested "visually" between
participating proofing vendors and printers, and that "everyone" was satisfied
with the results. (I got the points you raised on your reply on the ECI List
and will go through them)
I confess this is all speculations on my part as I did not participate in
Fogra51 (I wish...)
I have a link to a PDF which dokuments Fogra51 development but it is in
German... (which makes me regret not having taking more than the first German
language course during my undergraduate studies -- I did take three courses in
Italian, though...)
/ Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: Refik Telhan <email@hidden>
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2019 10:30 PM
To: email@hidden
Cc: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Fogra 51 and 52
Dear Roger,
The following quotation is from Mr. Hanno Hoffstadt's mail dated 19.02.2019
which he had sent as part of the thread "[ECI-EN] Issues related with the
switch from FOGRA39/47 to FOGRA51/52":
"The original M1 measurement data for FOGRA51 (6 test prints, 6 printers, 4
papers; all measured by 4 devices - i1pro2, fd7, exact, spectrodens)..."
Best,
Refik
--------------------------------------------------------
Refik Telhan, EE B.Sc.
Light and Color Management Consultancy
Aydogdu Sokak 12A, Tarabya Mahallesi
Sariyer, 34457, Istanbul, Turkey
Mobile: + (90) (532) 426 21 87
--------------------------------------------------------
On 09.06.2019 00:32, "colorsync-users on behalf of Roger Breton via
colorsync-users" <colorsync-users-bounces+rtelhan=email@hidden on
behalf of email@hidden> wrote:
Do we know what instrumentation was used to measure Fogra 51 and 52?
Just "M1"?
Best / Roger
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| References: | |
| | >Fogra 51 and 52 (From: Roger Breton via colorsync-users <email@hidden>) |