RE: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
RE: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
- Subject: RE: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
- From: Roger Breton via colorsync-users <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2019 12:57:42 -0500
Hallo Karl,
Made a quick experiment with my iPhone11ProMax who’s supposed to have an OLED
display. I have to say that, under Settings > Display & Brightness, I have it
set to “about 60% brightness” (they only have “slider” interface) and TrueTone
is ON.
I measured its RGBW colors, which I typed in Excel and copied below (I don’t
think the List accepts HTML (apologize in advance for the way the data may come
out – we’ll find out now!) :
iPhone11 Pro Max
x
y
Y
CCT
0.3441
0.3523
50.59
5040
0.6601
0.3319
11.51
610.8
0.3314
0.6070
36.77
554
0.1502
0.0624
3.13
465
First of all, the “Brightness” makes the screen luminance quite low – but I
don’t mind. Also, the TrueTone setting makes it appear “yellowish” or “creamy”
to some others, but it does not bother me at all. I’m used to this kind of
white point CCT.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqkoAuU7cMVh8vkPvJsA?e=Iry2tn
As you can see on the graph, in that TrueTone mode, it’s closer to sRGB than
anything else. I shall try, later, to turn TrueTone off, to measure the
difference.
Bite, enchuldigen sie meine humble technical ignorance about the iPhone aber do
they have some kind of ICC profile for the iPhone? At Apple? My old Nokia
Windows phone came with selectable ICC profiles…
MfG / Roger
From: email@hidden <email@hidden>
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 12:05 PM
To: 'Wire ~' <email@hidden>; email@hidden
Cc: ''colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List' <email@hidden>
Subject: RE: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
Hi Roger,
P3 is the logical choice if you want to address videographers. Most of their
software is not color managed and relies on a specific gamut (or
calibration/emulation if your monitor supports 3D LUTs). The you can reduce a
wide gamut monitor to Rec 709, for example and save the money for a specialised
video monitor.
A lot of new displays for handhelds and laptops (not only Apple´s) offer a P3
gamut now, most probably due to the fact that they com from the same
manufacturer ;-)
If you convert to sRGB you cut off a lot of greens which could be printed in an
offset process, let alone digital press. NTSC is much better suited for that.
That is why eciRGB v2 is very close to NTSC (which was a very theoretical
monitor gamut at its time).
If you set your monitor to native – or better calibrate it to a white point of
5000K or 6500 K, depending for which industry you are working – AND then
profile it, the colors will be right in color managed applications. If you
don’t work with color managed applications, calibrating and profiling is a
waste of time and money. Then it´s all up to personal taste.
Best regards
Karl
Am 30. Nov. 2019, 17:37 +0100 schrieb Roger Breton via colorsync-users
<email@hidden <mailto:email@hidden> >:
Wire,
Is this what you're looking for?
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqkoAteG-cIdVA_xRmmA?e=EgcKHL
Opinion about balance between AdobeRGB and Display P3 in consumer gear?
Honestly, I don't know. I don't know at what rate are wide-gamut monitor
prices coming down? I'm not sure many "consumers" care all that much or are
the least bit knowledgeable about the gamut of their displays? As far as
Apple's products are concerned, it may give their engineers "good
conscience" to know they are adopting a "new" standard for display, P3, but
I suspect most buyers are not all that preoccupied and certainly wouldn't be
swayed to buy an Apple product because of their "adoption" of P3. I read
elsewhere that Microsoft's Surface Hub has P3 as its "native" space?
As an experiment, I tried to set my PA271W in its native gamut, if only to
measure the primaries, but I quickly reverted to sRGB emulation because the
colors were too vivid?
You mentioned NTSC and I was surprised to see how far it reaches into the
greens, not so much into the blues but almost on the nose of the spectrum
locus for the red primary. Quite a feat. Could it be that televisions were
made with these primaries all the way back in the '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s?
/ Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: colorsync-users
<colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=email@hidden
<mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=email@hidden> > On Behalf
Of
Wire ~ via colorsync-users
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:49 AM
To: email@hidden <mailto:email@hidden>
Subject: Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
Roger thanks (and Andrew) for looking that up and plotting.
Would you replace previous NEC model plot with NTSC 1953 and post your graph
over on the DisplayCal thread you recently commented... The graph clearly
makes Vincent at DisplayCal's point about combined P3 / Adobe coverage
possible with some new tech. And I think it will show that consumer displays
(higher end) have finally arrived at the color spec laid down when ENIAC was
the next big thing (figuratively haha)
What are you opinions about the balance between Adobe RGB and Display P3
coverage in consumer gear? And challenges of wide-gamuts in general. I'm
interested in your opinions as both what you think personally and your sense
of industry trends.
/wire
On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 6:40 PM Roger Breton via colorsync-users <
email@hidden <mailto:email@hidden> >
wrote:
Thank you so much, Mr Rodney.
Never knew why manufacturers could not publish this kind of data in
their technical brochure.
A little graphing shows the improvements over the previous generation:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqkoAglHEpfO10xKmr_g?e=npCj5r
I can see they managed to get the red primary very close to the
Cine-P3 red primary which, according to the P3 specs, is "made up of a
615nm monochromatic" source of light.
The green primary gives the impression that it is cleverly "sitting"
between
AdobeRGB's green primariy and Cine-P3's green primary.
The blue primary is also improved relative to the 271W.
I can't assess the black level, though. Being an OLED panel, it's
supposed to have deeper black levels than an LCD panel.
I suppose you have a 10-bit end to end workflow?
May I ask the source of your numbers, Andrew? I1pro2? Multiprofiler?
SpoectraView II? I found Multiprofiler numbers are very close to
lab-grade instruments, at least in my experience.
Thank you so much for your help,
/ Roger
www.graxx.ca <http://www.graxx.ca>
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Rodney <email@hidden <mailto:email@hidden> >
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2019 9:13 PM
To: Roger Breton <email@hidden <mailto:email@hidden> >
Cc: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List <
email@hidden <mailto:email@hidden> >
Subject: Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
Here's what I see on mine, (full gamut) in SpectraView Info window:
Red: 0.683, 0.311
Green: 0.217, 0.721
Blue: 0.153, 0.045
Source: Calibration Sensor.
Hope that's useful.
Andrew Rodney
http://www.digitaldog.net/
On Nov 29, 2019, at 7:04 PM, Roger Breton via colorsync-users
<email@hidden <mailto:email@hidden> >
wrote:
Would anyone have the 1931 CIE xy chromaticities of this monitor, by
any chance? In its "Full", "Native" mode? It's not in the User
Manual, it's not on NEC web site, it's not on some user review by
PCMag or some other? It's probably shown on Multiprofiler but I
don't have the version made for this monitor.
Curious to know how they can go about emulating both AdobeRGB and
DCI-P3 at the same time.
Any help is appreciated / Roger
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