Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
- Subject: Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
- From: Wire ~ via colorsync-users <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 11:52:29 -0800
I just acquired a Dell UP2516D (QHD 2560x1440 PremierColor) and thought
maybe others interested in the gamut plots for the NEC would like to know
what this display looks like.
This is a commodities display for color pros. It claims Adobe RGB and DCI
P3 coverage.
I measured using a Monaco Optix (DTP-94) and latest version of DisplayCal
(see caveat below).
Here are the gamut plots:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DSpUzIAgxsiG8qi8FKr2uJ5_P4MNmTKu
These reveal that Dells claims are dead on.
Its modes are: sRGB, Adobe RGB, DCI-P3 (! the cinema one), and "custom
color" which opens up the whole gamut and allows setting of gain and bias
for pre-cal of white and black. Custom color has native device TRC.
This unit has very good uniformity, can do 400 cd/m, and looks good out of
the box. It comes with a certificate of < 2 dE across the board for Adobe
RGB mode. I will have to measure this later but is appears believable
I prefer newer Display P3 so I target an sRGB TRC in a custom color mode.
Limits:
- Preset white points looks too warm. Need to measure, but I do my own cal
so hmm.
- DCI-P3 mode is the cinema variant: D63, G2.6.
- 8-bit data path
- No HDR
Connects with DisplayPort and HMDI. I'm using an old 2008 Mac Pro with
GTX-680 and DVI-I to HDMI converter. Works perfectly. And on Mac Mojave
with widest-gamut cal everything looks right: Mac UI, Adobe, Firefox
browser... Benefits of wide gamut covering print and sRGB-for-2020. I'm
super pleased with how this is working. As someone at DisplayCal forums
said about my quibbling over Adobe RGB vs P3 "Why not have it all!"
Price: $299 new direct from Dell
CAVEAT—According to DisplayCal guys and web-lore, some versions of DTP-94
unit may not be suitable for wide-gamut application, but this unit is
producing profiles that make sense and look right to me.)
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 3:44 PM Wire ~ <email@hidden> wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 7:59 PM <email@hidden> wrote:
>
>> I wish to better understand the issue that Florian spoke to Apple about,
>> "... custom XYZLUT display profiles that meet spec but make MacOS glitch
>> out". I'll have to research this on DisplayCAL, perhaps it is documented?
>> Could this every be fixed?
>>
>> I'm not advocating for either Microsoft or Apple or Argyll or DisplayCAL,
>> I'm not surprised Apple may have changed things to make their lives
>> simpler, or honestly screwed things up badly for developers.
>>
>> Which side are you on, anyway?
>>
>> / Roger
>
>
> I'm not on any side. I'm fascinated by the subject. I don't work for
> anyone pertaining to this subject. It's important to me as an amateur.
>
> In a nutshell, you can create XYZLUT profiles using DisplayCal on MacOS
> and the OS will let you select them in the Displays > Color panel without
> complaint then various Apple-supplied programs will just render your
> graphics completely wrong.
>
> Adobe works.
>
> Complaining to Apple is unproductive, and Florian had to put a caveat into
> the DisplayCal UI to tell users to avoid that style of profile on Mac.
>
> I suggested he take it up over here at the "Apple Colorsync Mailing List"
> though he was doubtful, noting that this list is mostly talk about
> prepress.
>
> As I was looking more into the matter, my experience is that depending on
> the profile I use on my up-to-date Mac, I get subtly different renderings
> depending on which software I use to work with graphics, even when all are
> supposed to be color-managed!
>
> I wrote these concerns up (not very well) and submitted them on this forum
> a few months ago, but no one here cares about Colorsync anymore. You guys
> all use Windows, OMG. Who knows why Apple even keeps this list around any
> more> Maybe because this place used to be a hotbed of well-informed and
> adventurous discussion, back when good 'ol Bruce Fraser was writing clear
> tracts about how to make color management work in the "real world". (The
> Epson Inkjet list was also a great forum, back in the day),
>
> So, having watched this stuff evolve for decades, I'm dumbfounded that for
> most users, color-management still is a complete mystery of behaviors, and
> more complex than ever. Kind of like the American commonwealth.
>
> I've no axe to grind re platforms. I work with Mac, Windows and Linux (I
> lived through the Unix Wars and done systems programming for novel
> super-computer architectures on Unix. And I've done tons of IT for these
> platforms. My personal systems are Apple (and VMs for the others), because
> I found Mac most elegant around time of Centris 650 when I bought my first
> home system, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. And the desktop
> publishing revolution belonged to Mac. I hate Microsoft as a general rule.
> Now everyone hates Apple. I see history sort of repeating i(it never really
> does) with iOS and Android. It pleases me that Microsoft (Balmer) thought
> phones were stupid in 2007 and a market not worth pursuing, and when they
> discovered how wrong Balmer was tried to re-invent Windows the mobile
> wworld just rejected them. Meanwhile Mac had gone Darwin. Saying yes to
> Android is saying please hijack my mobile and dox me for ransom, unless
> it's Android straight from Google.
>
> But I'm not invested in seeing any platform succeed or fail. My heart
> really lives with Richard Stallman's philosophy and work. Industry always
> thought he was a villain because he advocated that ordinary people should
> take interest in and ownership of tech that's crucial to their futures.
>
> So I returned to this list because I found DisplayCal, thought it's
> completely awesome, find the people working on it a super intelligent and
> well-informed, and when they said they ran into a problem that affects my
> platform of choice, I figured I should at least come over here and make a
> stab at seeing whether there's any traction with Apple to get it fixed.
>
> Along way, over at DisplayCal forums, I'm socratically learning about new
> trends in color and trying to connect these to old interests. Two of my
> favorite topics are Charles Poyton's wonderful expositions on the
> importance of understanding gamma—I can remember a guy named Timo who
> called out problems with non-unity gamma-encoded working spaces and RGB
> blending in Photoshop and how everyone thought he was a crank because he
> advocated high-bit linear light editing. A long time later, Adobe added a
> "Blending Mode Gamma" option to Photoshop. Good work Timo! There was a guy
> named Dan M. who taught photoshop CMYK by the numbers and he went through a
> phase where he taught all these prepress guys to "Move to Lab" in Photoshop
> under an 8-bit regime. Completely unaware that Lab coding efficiency is
> about 5 percent. Dan was a stickler for quality, but he had no problem
> that a single editing move could throw have of the information away. And
> there was endless struggling with platform-dependent color-rendering
> differences, especially re Epson. Andrew Rodney will no doubt recall this
> sort of stuff.
>
> My current peeve is the denigration of sRGB. It's a color-space that makes
> so much sense. And I'm super excited about new wide-gamut displays, and
> more color. At same time I see how these have been such a can of worms for
> so many early adopters. There's an amateur GIMP aficionado—I can't recall
> her name at moment—who has some great web write-ups on about how when you
> say sRGB, it's not even clear what you're talking about because there are
> numerous profiles circulating define it differently. Holy cow! And she has
> this great tract about how you can have a wide-gamut display that can claim
> Adobe RGB coverage, but actually significantly not cover sRGB. I thrive on
> these sorts of contentions, where when you study a matter and talk it
> through, community understanding evolves. (If I were better at math, I
> would've been all over the quantum mechanics revolution and the conundrum
> of the two-slit experiment, and quantum computing!) And what's a "quantum
> dot"(R)(TM) OLED technology? Etc.
>
> Anyway I have fun think about this stuff and never mind bones of
> contention. I love the feeling of when I think I understand something and
> I'm wrong! And also Of course, I'm sometimes just stupidly wrong, like
> everybody.
>
> BTW—I liked your graph of the 2D coverage for the new NEC, P3, Adobe and
> NTSC. Thanks for taking the time.
>
> And happy to see you over at DisplayCal forum. That SW is super great and
> it's a lively spot.
>
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