Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
- Subject: Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
- From: Wire ~ via colorsync-users <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2020 16:54:09 -0800
Re DELL UP2516D
It might not be clear from previous message, this Dell is remarkable
because it's so inexpensive given its color capabilities. You can get 4 of
these for the price of 1 NEC.
If you accept 25in QHD res. and lack of other potentially valuable QA
features in NEC.
I added DisplayCal measurement details for "Adobe RGB" mode to the info
folder I shared.
In summary:
- Adobe RGB mode measured whitepoint varies from 6300K to 6550K from the
left side to the right side of the panel, with a slight magenta bias to the
white point. (this isn't shown in the stats file I provided)
- Adobe RGB gamut coverage is 99%.
- Measured dE for Adobe RGB mode is MAX 2.1, AVE 0.65 (!)
- P3 coverage is 97% in DCI-P3 mode
- Native mode covers both Adobe RGB and P3
So it seems not unreasonable to use this display out of box for Adobe RGB
and sRGB conformant alignments with no cal required.
Didn't test DCI-P3 mode (D63 cinema) as it's not my bailiwick.
If you calovrate yourself in native mode under a software CMM regime, you
can have sRGB, Adobe RGB and DCI-P3 all at once as specced by your content?
Yes, I think so...
On Wed, Jan 1, 2020 at 11:52 AM Wire ~ <email@hidden> wrote:
> I just acquired a Dell UP2516D (QHD 2560x1440 PremierColor) and thought
> maybe others interested in the gamut plots for the NEC would like to know
> what this display looks like.
>
> This is a commodities display for color pros. It claims Adobe RGB and DCI
> P3 coverage.
>
> I measured using a Monaco Optix (DTP-94) and latest version of DisplayCal
> (see caveat below).
>
> Here are the gamut plots:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DSpUzIAgxsiG8qi8FKr2uJ5_P4MNmTKu
>
> These reveal that Dells claims are dead on.
>
> Its modes are: sRGB, Adobe RGB, DCI-P3 (! the cinema one), and "custom
> color" which opens up the whole gamut and allows setting of gain and bias
> for pre-cal of white and black. Custom color has native device TRC.
>
> This unit has very good uniformity, can do 400 cd/m, and looks good out of
> the box. It comes with a certificate of < 2 dE across the board for Adobe
> RGB mode. I will have to measure this later but is appears believable
>
> I prefer newer Display P3 so I target an sRGB TRC in a custom color mode.
>
> Limits:
> - Preset white points looks too warm. Need to measure, but I do my own cal
> so hmm.
> - DCI-P3 mode is the cinema variant: D63, G2.6.
> - 8-bit data path
> - No HDR
>
> Connects with DisplayPort and HMDI. I'm using an old 2008 Mac Pro with
> GTX-680 and DVI-I to HDMI converter. Works perfectly. And on Mac Mojave
> with widest-gamut cal everything looks right: Mac UI, Adobe, Firefox
> browser... Benefits of wide gamut covering print and sRGB-for-2020. I'm
> super pleased with how this is working. As someone at DisplayCal forums
> said about my quibbling over Adobe RGB vs P3 "Why not have it all!"
>
> Price: $299 new direct from Dell
>
> CAVEAT—According to DisplayCal guys and web-lore, some versions of DTP-94
> unit may not be suitable for wide-gamut application, but this unit is
> producing profiles that make sense and look right to me.)
>
> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 3:44 PM Wire ~ <email@hidden> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 7:59 PM <email@hidden> wrote:
>>
>>> I wish to better understand the issue that Florian spoke to Apple about,
>>> "... custom XYZLUT display profiles that meet spec but make MacOS glitch
>>> out". I'll have to research this on DisplayCAL, perhaps it is documented?
>>> Could this every be fixed?
>>>
>>> I'm not advocating for either Microsoft or Apple or Argyll or
>>> DisplayCAL, I'm not surprised Apple may have changed things to make their
>>> lives simpler, or honestly screwed things up badly for developers.
>>>
>>> Which side are you on, anyway?
>>>
>>> / Roger
>>
>>
>> I'm not on any side. I'm fascinated by the subject. I don't work for
>> anyone pertaining to this subject. It's important to me as an amateur.
>>
>> In a nutshell, you can create XYZLUT profiles using DisplayCal on MacOS
>> and the OS will let you select them in the Displays > Color panel without
>> complaint then various Apple-supplied programs will just render your
>> graphics completely wrong.
>>
>> Adobe works.
>>
>> Complaining to Apple is unproductive, and Florian had to put a caveat
>> into the DisplayCal UI to tell users to avoid that style of profile on Mac.
>>
>> I suggested he take it up over here at the "Apple Colorsync Mailing List"
>> though he was doubtful, noting that this list is mostly talk about
>> prepress.
>>
>> As I was looking more into the matter, my experience is that depending on
>> the profile I use on my up-to-date Mac, I get subtly different renderings
>> depending on which software I use to work with graphics, even when all are
>> supposed to be color-managed!
>>
>> I wrote these concerns up (not very well) and submitted them on this
>> forum a few months ago, but no one here cares about Colorsync anymore. You
>> guys all use Windows, OMG. Who knows why Apple even keeps this list around
>> any more> Maybe because this place used to be a hotbed of well-informed and
>> adventurous discussion, back when good 'ol Bruce Fraser was writing clear
>> tracts about how to make color management work in the "real world". (The
>> Epson Inkjet list was also a great forum, back in the day),
>>
>> So, having watched this stuff evolve for decades, I'm dumbfounded that
>> for most users, color-management still is a complete mystery of behaviors,
>> and more complex than ever. Kind of like the American commonwealth.
>>
>> I've no axe to grind re platforms. I work with Mac, Windows and Linux (I
>> lived through the Unix Wars and done systems programming for novel
>> super-computer architectures on Unix. And I've done tons of IT for these
>> platforms. My personal systems are Apple (and VMs for the others), because
>> I found Mac most elegant around time of Centris 650 when I bought my first
>> home system, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. And the desktop
>> publishing revolution belonged to Mac. I hate Microsoft as a general rule.
>> Now everyone hates Apple. I see history sort of repeating i(it never really
>> does) with iOS and Android. It pleases me that Microsoft (Balmer) thought
>> phones were stupid in 2007 and a market not worth pursuing, and when they
>> discovered how wrong Balmer was tried to re-invent Windows the mobile
>> wworld just rejected them. Meanwhile Mac had gone Darwin. Saying yes to
>> Android is saying please hijack my mobile and dox me for ransom, unless
>> it's Android straight from Google.
>>
>> But I'm not invested in seeing any platform succeed or fail. My heart
>> really lives with Richard Stallman's philosophy and work. Industry always
>> thought he was a villain because he advocated that ordinary people should
>> take interest in and ownership of tech that's crucial to their futures.
>>
>> So I returned to this list because I found DisplayCal, thought it's
>> completely awesome, find the people working on it a super intelligent and
>> well-informed, and when they said they ran into a problem that affects my
>> platform of choice, I figured I should at least come over here and make a
>> stab at seeing whether there's any traction with Apple to get it fixed.
>>
>> Along way, over at DisplayCal forums, I'm socratically learning about new
>> trends in color and trying to connect these to old interests. Two of my
>> favorite topics are Charles Poyton's wonderful expositions on the
>> importance of understanding gamma—I can remember a guy named Timo who
>> called out problems with non-unity gamma-encoded working spaces and RGB
>> blending in Photoshop and how everyone thought he was a crank because he
>> advocated high-bit linear light editing. A long time later, Adobe added a
>> "Blending Mode Gamma" option to Photoshop. Good work Timo! There was a guy
>> named Dan M. who taught photoshop CMYK by the numbers and he went through a
>> phase where he taught all these prepress guys to "Move to Lab" in Photoshop
>> under an 8-bit regime. Completely unaware that Lab coding efficiency is
>> about 5 percent. Dan was a stickler for quality, but he had no problem
>> that a single editing move could throw have of the information away. And
>> there was endless struggling with platform-dependent color-rendering
>> differences, especially re Epson. Andrew Rodney will no doubt recall this
>> sort of stuff.
>>
>> My current peeve is the denigration of sRGB. It's a color-space that
>> makes so much sense. And I'm super excited about new wide-gamut displays,
>> and more color. At same time I see how these have been such a can of worms
>> for so many early adopters. There's an amateur GIMP aficionado—I can't
>> recall her name at moment—who has some great web write-ups on about how
>> when you say sRGB, it's not even clear what you're talking about because
>> there are numerous profiles circulating define it differently. Holy cow!
>> And she has this great tract about how you can have a wide-gamut display
>> that can claim Adobe RGB coverage, but actually significantly not cover
>> sRGB. I thrive on these sorts of contentions, where when you study a matter
>> and talk it through, community understanding evolves. (If I were better at
>> math, I would've been all over the quantum mechanics revolution and the
>> conundrum of the two-slit experiment, and quantum computing!) And what's a
>> "quantum dot"(R)(TM) OLED technology? Etc.
>>
>> Anyway I have fun think about this stuff and never mind bones of
>> contention. I love the feeling of when I think I understand something and
>> I'm wrong! And also Of course, I'm sometimes just stupidly wrong, like
>> everybody.
>>
>> BTW—I liked your graph of the 2D coverage for the new NEC, P3, Adobe and
>> NTSC. Thanks for taking the time.
>>
>> And happy to see you over at DisplayCal forum. That SW is super great and
>> it's a lively spot.
>>
>
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