Re: Cocoa and AudioUnits?
Re: Cocoa and AudioUnits?
- Subject: Re: Cocoa and AudioUnits?
- From: Robert Abernathy <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 14:42:33 -0700
The "problem" is that we can't write our AU's using Cocoa. I would
write my AU using Cocoa even if the two major hosting apps couldn't use
them. Just like I would tend to write my AUs not using VST even though
that is relatively more restricting. View it as inducement (no matter
how small) to get those major hosting apps to do the right thing. I
personally think that if some of those major apps had decided to do
major overhauls, they might actually be to market by now.
Besides, this is only one view of how to use AU's. Another view would
be that I want to build a complete synthesis environment that leverages
the fine work you guys have done on CoreAudio and CoreMIDI. One of the
results of that nice work is the structure and extensibility that AU's
provide. This would be true even if there weren't an army of 3rd party
developers that make this an even more obvious choice. Some of the
things I would like to do in the modules I want to build would benefit
greatly from using Cocoa from the UI. Plus I think my time to market
would be less, if I could use Cocoa to build these elements of the
application.
Major platform changes are one of the few times that there are openings
in the software world for companies that don't already have a "major"
application out. So, I care deeply that Apple provides me with the
tools that give me the greatest advantage in trying to use those
openings. I really couldn't care less about making sure that what I
do, fits with two other companies products at the moment. If I did,
I'd just use VST.
On Thursday, January 23, 2003, at 02:00 PM, Bill Stewart wrote:
I really don't get it - what problem! This is part of my frustration
with some of the comments on this thread
A Cocoa app can easily host a Carbon view - there is ample support in
there for doing that.
A Carbon app (which is what ALL of the major hosting apps are written
in) cannot easily host a Cocoa view.
So - if we make it easy for you to have Cocoa Views for AudioUnits who
is going to use them? Or is it more important for you that your life
is easy and comfortable, but no-one can use your audio units?
That is the quandary, that is why it is the way it is now. As this
situation is fixed or changes we will do our part.
Bill
On Thursday, January 23, 2003, at 11:39 AM, Robert Abernathy wrote:
On Wednesday, January 22, 2003, at 07:18 PM, Bill Stewart wrote:
Interesting thread - not that I have much to say about it at the
moment except that your voices have been heard...
O.K.
BUT
One thing that I think we did well with AUs was to distinguish
between the model and the view of the DSP. If Cocoa is good for UI
and your preferred UI choice, then it is certainly easier for a
Cocoa based hosts to host a Carbon UI than vice versa.
I agree with this, including the model-view separation. But, it only
helps the host developer.
All of the strengths that have been discussed about Cocoa relate to
the UI capabilities - and if/when we do do work in this area it will
be in that aspect of the AU - its view.
I don't see us changing any of the implementation and container of
the DSP code (the AU proper) to be anything but C/C++ anytime soon.
However, that doesn't mean that's the only way that the API for
users of AUs or other CoreAudio APIs will be published.
Cocoa has advantages other than UI. The reason I think that we are
mainly talking about UI is that this is the only thing the Cocoa
people can't do anything about.
I would like to see the SDK in Objective C. If you choose not to
provide this, we can write our own. Just as people have already
written Objective C API's for the HAL and some of the AU.
When It comes to the AU UI, we can't fix our problem.
Thanks for the reply.
Rob
Bill
On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 10:58 AM, Robert Abernathy wrote:
It was gently pointed out to me in a private email, that my
arguments about the age of the Carbon library where wrong (and
silly). I think that it is important to correct myself on this
point. The design and implementation of Cocoa is nearly as old as
Carbon. Cocoa is actually a mature and well tested library. My
point should really have been that Cocoa is the best UI development
platform out there (anywhere) and Carbon isn't.
Again, thanks for all the feedback on this. I really would like
some from someone at Apple, even if it is just to tell me I'm out
of luck. If Apple isn't going to be giving us Cocoa based AU's any
time soon then I will set up my own plugin format for the app I'm
working on. I will lose all of the nice stuff from AU graphs and I
will have to build adaptors between AU's and the other plugins, but
I think it will be well worth it.
Rob
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