• Open Menu Close Menu
  • Apple
  • Shopping Bag
  • Apple
  • Mac
  • iPad
  • iPhone
  • Watch
  • TV
  • Music
  • Support
  • Search apple.com
  • Shopping Bag

Lists

Open Menu Close Menu
  • Terms and Conditions
  • Lists hosted on this site
  • Email the Postmaster
  • Tips for posting to public mailing lists
Re: Quality of CoreAudio SRC
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: Quality of CoreAudio SRC


  • Subject: Re: Quality of CoreAudio SRC
  • From: Brian Willoughby <email@hidden>
  • Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 00:28:41 -0800

Executive Summary: I don't think we have seen any published test results for the CoreAudio SRC, but I really would like to.

Hi Herbie,

I've seen this White Paper a few times, and you're right about the color assignments: the gradation seems to stop at a certain point in cyan and then jump to a steady blue which does not change through the remainder of the range. This color scheme acts as a visual noise gate to hide the flaws in the BIAS product. However, if the same color assignment is used for all products, then it is at least a fair indication that the others they tested all have higher noise.

I'm not too shy to say that I am unimpressed with the Mac OS X programming abilities of BIAS Inc. But I am thankful that their tests are basically open source, by publishing the Matlab scripts, source code, and test signal files. I plan on running the tests against CoreAudio at my first opportunity, although I would need help from someone with Matlab to produce the graphs.

The link that Bias cites as "matching our results" is much more accurate in showing the flaws of the Bias SRC.
<http://src.infinitewave.ca/>
This shows clear aliasing in Bias Peak Pro 5.2, and I'm not sure how the White Paper was able to hide this aliasing, even with their color assignments. I like the way the Infinite Wave graphs look, better than the prior Matlab ones.


I will disagree that we can assume Logic is using the CoreAudio AudioConverter SRC, but I suppose someone may easily clear up this assumption soon. My impression, having licensed Logic before Apple bought the company, is that large parts of the code were obviously completely independent of Apple at one point, and have only been rewritten where absolutely necessary. I really doubt that the internal pre-Apple Logic SRC used the same calling scheme as AudioConverter, so I don't see why they would spend time re-factoring it. But you've not made a bad guess. For all we know, AudioConverter is based on the SRC obtained from the Logic buyout.

Testing of the CoreAudio SRC on its own would confirm this, and would make a fine addition to the Infinite Wave SRC Comparison results browser. I have written to Infinite Wave with a request to add such results from CoreAudio, and I have offered to support them in obtaining the measurements. We developers want to compare SRC against commercial SRC, even if the latter is not available in our programs. There are already several flavors of results from each company represented, so I would like to see samples of various AudioConverter "quality" levels, hopefully including the new "mastering quality." Thank you for mentioning the specifics of the AltiVec versus SSE3 implementations, Herbie, because I also requested that the results for Intel and PowerPC be shown separately. I should have asked them to test Logic Studio 8, because they updated their page on Wednesday, and Logic 8 belongs on the list by now.

P.S. Look at how well iZotope 64-bit SRC performs! I think I know what my next purchase is...

Brian Willoughby
Sound Consulting


On Jan 31, 2008, at 13:29, Herbie Robinson wrote:

Bias published a paper on SRC about a year ago that included FFT analysis of frequency sweeps:

http://www.bias-inc.com/products/peakPro5/resampling/ peakResamplingWhitePaper.pdf

This information is 2 years old; so, it might be out of date. Undoubtedly, the thresholds for the color assignments are chosen to make the Bias SRC look perfectly clean, but that doesn't make the information inaccurate. This has been widely publicized on some of the audio engineer e-mail reflectors and nobody has ever challenged it as being inaccurate. Unless somebody from Apple tells us otherwise, we can probably assume Logic is using the Core Audio SRC. Note that distortion components in that plot are getting into the green range, or -120db. There is also aliasing around -140db. My guess about this is that the Wavelab SRC is using single precision floating point for the MAC loop, the Logic SRC is using the Altivec MAC (which is a little better than single precision) and the really clean SRCs are using double precision for everything.

This information is two years old. Also, note that if one compares Intel vs PPC using Altivec, the result must be different, because the Altivec floating point MAC instruction is a unique beast that does 4 multiplies and 4 adds in double precision, but truncates the result to single precision -- Theoretically, that would be 12dB less roundoff error than straight single precision (but much much more than using full double precision).

Bias has published the Matlab scripts for generating the plots at:

http://www.bias-inc.com/products/peakPro5/resampling/

_______________________________________________
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Coreaudio-api mailing list      (email@hidden)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
This email sent to email@hidden


  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: Quality of CoreAudio SRC
      • From: Herbie Robinson <email@hidden>
  • Next by Date: Re: Quality of CoreAudio SRC
  • Next by thread: Re: Quality of CoreAudio SRC
  • Index(es):
    • Date
    • Thread