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Re: Quality of CoreAudio SRC
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Re: Quality of CoreAudio SRC


  • Subject: Re: Quality of CoreAudio SRC
  • From: "Mikael Hakman" <email@hidden>
  • Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 13:38:02 +0100
  • Organization: Datakonsulten AB

With all due respect Jeff:

None of the users I know agree with this. This includes people with personal and in many cases also professional interests in high quality audio such as artists, music and studio related people, broadcast folks, audio hard- and software vendors, and many others. Many of these people work with and personally enjoy high quality music and other media, which is the reason for their occupation. I'll guess you could call them studio level audiophiles. This list includes my customers, suppliers, acquaintances, friends, family, and me. We do not want to run to the computer every other track to change sample rate in Preferences and in some cases also in hardware control panel. We do not even know what sample rate each of our 10 000 tracks is in. So yes, the hardware setting should be changed by application based on the actual sample rate of media being reproduced. Then of course there should be an option to set fix rate and have SRC done. We do not understand why e.g. iTunes doesn't work this way.

Yes, there are situations when the system has to mix audio from a number of sources. Then someone has to decide what sample rate to use. This should be the user. However, there are many situations when only one source is reproduced, in fact, when the user does not wish to have anything else reproduced via that particular interface, under any circumstances whatsoever. When e.g. monitoring a live broadcast, listening to a final version of some production, or simply listening to e.g. iTunes at 80 - 90 dB you don't want anything else on that channel. Therefore there should be an option, which for each interface would allow the user to decide whether to apply current hardware sample rate or let application to control the hardware, based on current media sample rate. This cannot be that difficult to realize in the software. Having an option would satisfy requirements in both situations and in both user categories.

We want a car with automatic gear box that could be switched to manual when the need arise, so to speak.

On February 01, 2008 12:01 AM, Jeff Moore wrote:

Basically, what Stephen is saying is something we've been saying since Day 0 of Core Audio and OS X. The hardware settings belong to the user. They should not be changed by applications. Rather, applications should be adapting to the settings of the hardware including responding to dynamic state changes.

The basic reason why is that the audio system on OS X is designed to be shared amongst all applications on the system. No application knows enough to say with any certainty what is going in other applications. Doing something like changing the sample rate can have serious consequences to other applications on the system ranging from causing a glitch in playback/capture or outright failure of some process due to the interruption or temporary loss of synch. In a badly coded application, it can cause a crash (see the recent thread about the bug in HALLab for an example). In fact, I could go on about the bad things that can happen to other applications when one app thinks it owns the hardware and makes unwarranted changes to settings.

On Jan 31, 2008, at 2:30 PM, Mikael Hakman wrote:

On January 31, 2008 Stephen Davis wrote:

IMHO, it is bad form to be changing the audio hardware's sample rate
for each track.  If you're gunning for the absolute highest quality
output then maybe it's okay but it's pretty obnoxious to the rest of
the system and should be clearly communicated to the user.

Would you or other knowledgeable member on this thread kindly explain why rate-following would be bad, in absence of other rate- locking signals such as digital input or word clock etc., please?


Why couldn't e.g. iTunes send the actual sample rate information down the chain of software layers until it arrives to the hardware (DAC)? The sample rate would need to be changed only when the rate used by the actual track is different from previous. I have been discussing this with few audio interface vendors. While they agree that not doing SRC would be the best, they blame on application and operating system vendors for not providing sample rate information to their drivers/hardware.

For a user it is difficult if not impossible to keep track of what sample rate a selected media is in, then use a control panel or Preferences or both to change the rate, and first then to play the track. Many users want to simply select a track, perhaps in Front Row using a remote control from the couch, and play it, or even play a number of randomly selected tracks. Why can't we give even these users the best audio quality available on the system?


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