Re: Mac compatible 5.1 audio sound cards
Re: Mac compatible 5.1 audio sound cards
- Subject: Re: Mac compatible 5.1 audio sound cards
- From: Richard Burnett <email@hidden>
- Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 02:06:41 -0400
I must respectively disagree with you on the fact of needing to upgrade for audio to any faster firewire standard. For the simple fact that no one is pushing FW800 today as a needed audio interface. The bandwidth is overkill, not to mention that the limitations come down to much more complicated interactions in your system when your interface speeds are competing always with other interfaces with your computer system. Bus contention is a serious issue, and PCI cards are NOT immune to this, at all.
The fact of the matter is that when recording audio, having tons of bandwidth is NOT going to help if you still have to wait for the events to occur in real time. You're still waiting for the audio to actually be recorded. While yes you could say that when you do pass that data, you can do it much faster, I can tell you from my own personal experience that other limiting factors in the system far bring it to a crawl before my audio interface EVER does.
For instance, I use 2 UAD cards that provide DSP for my DAW. Trying to run at anything less than 1024 buffer sizes and the communication between the software and the PCI bus begins to bring ANY DAW I use to its knees.
Also, with FW I get the added benefit of using my interfaces with my MacBookPro if I'd like with no issues at all.
Not that I think there is anything wrong with the PCI cards, as I debated to if I wanted to go down that path when I had the opportunity to switch as I was going to go to the HD196 devices. I am glad that I didn't. One firewire bus can handle 3 896HDs which would give me 54 inputs if I needed and that is good enough for me :) I've never tried to push 2 firewire busses worth of audio but if someone wanted to send me interfaces, I'd certainly try it! :P
My two octaves anyways :)
Rick
PS I am getting ready to put together a 5.1 system with my 896HDs using the Dangerous Music system for controlling bass management for a film I am about to score/master. For now I've been running just stereo out of one of the 896HDs into a PreSonus Central Station into ADAM A7s.
One word of advice I'd like to give about interfaces is that not all applications can handle your main stereo left right pair not being the first two outputs of your sound device. I had this problem for both recording and playback in many programs. So be leary of this in your setup. Also, if you use aggregate devices, it can become even worse if your main outs become outputs 21-22 or so on when certain applications may support 10 outputs and that is it, and your interfaces are set up so that your outputs is not in that range.
On Thursday, July 31, 2008, at 10:54PM, "Cyril Blanc" <email@hidden> wrote:
>Hi Rick
>
>In a way you are right in another way you are wrong, if you buy a FW
>audio today you interface will not benefit of FW1600 nor FW3200
>(this is coming very very soon)
>With PCI, you pay 300 $, but you benefit of the faster bus and of
>improvements on the card.
>The number of tracks will depends of the sample rate you will use.
>44 ? 96 ? 192 khz ?
>Best
>
>Cyril
>
>On Jul 31, 2008, at 7:03 PM, Richard Burnett wrote:
>
>> Regarding FW, I've actually done some research with people working
>> with the MOTU FW versus PCI cards and I find the performance from
>> what I have gathered from the MOTU user base online is that the
>> performance is similar. I use 2 MOTU 896HDs giving me 36 inputs and
>> have absolutely no problem on a Mac Pro 4x2.6Ghz system.
>>
>> I recommend Firewire to everyone who needs less or equal to 36 ins/
>> outs because you are not tied to a PCI card incase the bus
>> technology changes and the performance of the Firewire works great.
>> I also use 4 external drives and no extra FireWire card. In Logic8
>> and DP6 I can consistently work on projects using multiple live
>> inputs (I've tested all 36 in at once) with 40+ audio and instrument
>> tracks in addition and the system has worked wonderfully.
>>
>> I do time everything in my studio with a Lucid GenX6 and get no pops
>> or clicks ever.
>>
>> At a time, I have used MOTU's PCI interface, as I have owned a few
>> of them. Word of warning, NEVER accidentally pop out the connection
>> to it from the PCI card or you will hear a scream from your speakers
>> like no other!
>>
>> :)
>>
>> And the cost to upgrade a registered interface right now is $300 for
>> the new card, that's something you can avoid with FW.
>>
>> Rick Burnett
>> Asylum Studio Productions
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, July 31, 2008, at 12:42PM, "Cyril Blanc" <email@hidden
>> > wrote:
>>> Hello Mike,
>>>
>>> Motu PCI card is one format. You buy either a PCI 424 a PCI 424 X or
>>> a PCI 424 E
>>>
>>> The Motu solution is great as if the PCI bus changes, you replace for
>>> a reasonable price only the card, not the input/output units, you
>>> have
>>> a great choice of input/output units and they are compatible since
>>> Motu started this line 10 years ago
>>>
>>> I have moved from PCI to PCI X to PCI E ;)
>>>
>>> Using a USB audio is ok if you dont have too much tracks, same as FW
>>> audio
>>>
>>> If you use a FW audio and a FW disk it is better to have two FW bus
>>> (you can have clicks and pops if you dont)
>>>
>>> If you have PCI card, it's the best solution as you can expand your
>>> system, my Motu system has started with one Motu 2048 MK II and now
>>> has 84 ins/ 48 outs (see more details after)
>>>
>>> you can find second hand nits for reasonable price ;)
>>>
>>> On Jul 31, 2008, at 5:35 PM, Mike Stoddard wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob, if you consider a PCI-buss card solution, be
>>>> very careful about buss compatibility. Apple's PCI
>>>> designs evolved through many hybrid versions of the
>>>> PCI standard, starting with old 5-volt V.2.0 in G4's,
>>>> then evolving to 3-volt PCI-X, and then on to PCI-E.
>>>> Many card manufacturers (M-Audio being one) failed
>>>> to design correctly for this evolution, and their
>>>> cards will work in some Macs and not others. MOTU
>>>> by comparison seems to have done the right things,
>>>> and their PCI card (I think they have only one)
>>>> adapts itself to all the various voltages, etc.,
>>>> and works across all PCI and PCI-X busses. Sadly,
>>>> my G5 PM is one of the weird Macs that most PCI
>>>> cards will not work in.
>>>>
>>>> My solution was to stick with FireWire interfaces.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck,
>>>> -Mike Stoddard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bob Lang wrote:
>>>>> Hi everyone
>>>>> Sorry if this question is a bit off-topic but I'm sure that the
>>>>> people here will know the answer.
>>>>> I'm considering a project which will require a Mac compatible 5.1
>>>>> sound card for output. Currently I own a Griffin FireWave but I'm
>>>>> sad to say that this great piece of kit is being discontinued.
>>>>> I've done some web searching and found that there are a number of
>>>>> 5.1 sound cards available: internal cards using PCI, and external
>>>>> interfaces mainly using USB but some with FireWire, plus a
>>>>> collection of higher spec interfaces offering 8, 10 or more
>>>>> channels. Some of these cards claim to be OS X compatible, but
>>>>> most are silent on this issue; however, in my searching I've found
>>>>> some comments stating that you can plug any USB 5.1 sound card into
>>>>> a Mac and it work (despite the manufacturer's silence) whilst other
>>>>> comments complain that some of these cards some don't work
>>>>> correctly despite appearing as 5.1 devices in Audio/Midi Setup
>>>>> (e.g. Creative SB XFi Surround 5.1 is allegedly one such culprit).
>>>>> I'm completely confused. What is the state of play with Macs and
>>>>> the range of surround cards etc now on the market? Can I plug in
>>>>> any PCI and expect the Mac to use it? Likewise for any USB or
>>>>> FireWire device? Clearly there's no point embarking on a project
>>>>> which inherently requires a 5.1 card/interface if there are no
>>>>> longer any usable purchase options for prospective users! Can
>>>>> anyone shed any light on this confused situation?
>>>>> Perhaps I should mention that my project is output only - there's
>>>>> no sound capture required.
>>>>> Many thanks in advance.
>>>>> Bob
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>>> Best
>>>
>>> Cyril
>>>
>>> IChat/AIM : cyrillindablanc
>>> Skype : cyrillinda
>>> MSN : email@hidden
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>> Audio and Video Configuration :
>>>
>>> Macpro 8 core 3 ghz 13 GB, 2 X 1Tb + 74 WD Raptor
>>> Raid 0 for the libraries made with Rocket Raid and 6 x 36 gb raptor
>>> 10 000 rmp
>>> + 160+250 GB + FW 800 Lacie + 2x22" Iiyama
>>>
>>> Motu system including : PCI 424 E + 24i + 2408 MKII + 1296 + 2408
>>> MKIII (84 ins 40 outs)
>>> Logic Control + 4 Logic Control XT
>>> Midi interfaces : Stealth + OPCODE STUDIO 4 + MOTU MTP I ; USB
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