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Re: Sleeping in nanos
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Re: Sleeping in nanos


  • Subject: Re: Sleeping in nanos
  • From: Terry Lambert <email@hidden>
  • Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 14:19:53 -0800

You already have the answer to the question that caused you to ask this one, but just to clarify...

No, top doesn't lie, but its truths are perhaps not the same for every platform.

The top program has a model of "this is the way things are implemented", and it attempts to collect figures of merit based on its internal assumptions about system architecture. For any system this means that you end up with a "libtop" that's platform specific, and hides the platform dependent bits from the program itself. For a lot of the numbers that top comes back with, on some platforms, getting the real numbers and calculating the top numbers requires substantial effort under the covers.


For the load average, the three numbers that BSD tends to keep (and which we fake up as part of the context switch management in the Mach scheduler) and which are reported by "w", "top", and similar programs are from getloadavg(). This is nominally a weighted moving average, which is to say that instantaneous load, as measured by number of items at the top of a ready-to-run queue but not yet scheduled onto a processor.



You've already gotten answers about the difference in effective timer resolution in MacOS X vs. Linux (this is obvious, in restrospect, given the heavy multimedia bent of MacOS X, and the difference in the "fairness" guarantees in the scheduler for multiple threads) that mostly account for the difference you are observing. I'd just add that if a timer fires sooner rather than being rounded up to some boundary, the instantaneous numbers of things in a read-to-run state are going to be exaggerated upward by the ratio of the diffference in timer resolution. Put another way... if my timer fires at an exact time instead of a rounded time, then for a very small interval relative to system call overhead, I'm going to see a process on the read-to-run queue a lot more frequently.



As others have pointed out, this makes the idea of instantaneous load average not very useful for this type of statistics gathering, and you are much better off with "time" and similar commands that use getrusage() for accumulated child process resource usage as accounted by the scheduler directly.


-- Terry

On Feb 2, 2007, at 11:32 PM, Greg wrote:
I'm simply using "top" on both systems, one is a MacBook Pro C2D, the other is some fast AMD processor. Are you saying that "top" lies? There's one thing that doesn't lie for sure, and that is the fans on my MBP which will become quite audible.

- Greg

On Feb 3, 2007, at 2:05 AM, Terry Lambert wrote:

How is it being measured on Linux?

Is it being done as a weighted moving average on scheduler transitions, or is it based on sleeping in the idle loop, or what? Or is a system considered "loaded" only when there are processes on a "ready to run" queue, waiting assignment to a CPU? If the latter, is it loaded 100% any time the value waiting for a CPU is non-zero, or is the load based on number of "runnable" vs. "total", and/or does it include the currently running processes as part of the load, etc.?

Different approaches to measuring will give different answers, and almost all systems

If your answer is coming from "top" vs. "w" vs. "uptime" vs. getloadavg(), you are going to get a subjective measurement.


If this is an Intel system (i.e. you are comparing the same machine running MacOS X with one running Linux), my suggestion is to use the TSC instruction to get cycle counts, and compare those instead of trying to compare fictitious "load average" numbers that are likely calculated in different ways.


-- Terry

On Feb 2, 2007, at 8:38 PM, Greg wrote:
So then why do I barely see 1% CPU utilization on linux?

- Greg

On Feb 2, 2007, at 11:05 PM, Ed Wynne wrote:

From: Greg <email@hidden>
Date: February 2, 2007 10:28:08 PM EST
To: Darwin Kernel <email@hidden>
Subject: Sleeping in nanos

Is there a way on OS X to sleep for 1000 nanoseconds without causing 65% CPU usage? I have tried nanosleep and clock_sleep (using TIME_RELATIVE and a REALTIME_CLOCK), and both seem to simply cause a busy loop.

Assuming an instruction takes one cycle (some do, lots don't) and a 2Ghz CPU, each instruction will take .5ns. That means the CPU can run 2000 instructions, at most, while your sleeping for 1us.


Given that any kind of sleep function will be a syscall into the kernel and invoke the scheduler, I'd be willing to bet it takes a lot more than 2000 instructions just to put yourself to sleep and then wake back up. Your 65% CPU usage is probably indicative of this. It is taking longer to setup and recover from sleep than your spending sleeping.

-Ed


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  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: Sleeping in nanos
      • From: Greg <email@hidden>
References: 
 >Sleeping in nanos (From: Greg <email@hidden>)
 >Fwd: Sleeping in nanos (From: Greg <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Sleeping in nanos (From: Ed Wynne <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Sleeping in nanos (From: Greg <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Sleeping in nanos (From: Terry Lambert <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Sleeping in nanos (From: Greg <email@hidden>)

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