Re: Is WebObjects Dead?
Re: Is WebObjects Dead?
- Subject: Re: Is WebObjects Dead?
- From: Pierre Frisch <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:04:21 -0800
Dave,
We are also a small software development house and we have stuck with
WO for exactly the same reasons you point for moving away from it. I
have found OSS to be poorly documented (as least not better that WO)
and I can quite easily make a determination of why something does not
work. I still have not found a problem I cannot solve in WO frameworks.
Yes the learning step is high but the productivity is high too.
We have had our frustration with Apple support but since the move to WO
5.x and pure Java at least we can write our own patches and submit them
for integration to Apple (and they do integrate them). So the situation
in term of support is not very different form the OSS and sometime
Apple support come up with good solution.
Pierre
--
Pierre Frisch
sPearWay Ltd.
sPearCat Web Catalogs, the flexibility of custom design, the price of a
package.
http://www.spearcat.com/
On Feb 25, 2004, at 14:45, Dave Varon wrote:
> To the contrary:
>
> We abandoned WO _because_ of the learning curve and integration issues.
>
> We have moved webapp development to hibernate/struts/tiles with many
> homegrown components.
>
> There is ongoing debate about why tech mgrs make decisions. Our
> perspective on that debate _is_ relevant. That being said, as a small
> devshop, coding primarily for internal clients, we rely on our
> ambition and critical thinking skills to solve business problems
> which many larger firms justifiably solve with policy and greenbacks.
>
> We determined it would be more cost effective to go full-OSS because
> we benefit in the long term by investing in learning how to solve
> problems at the source-code level. Investing time to learn how API
> internals are constructed pays off in, potentially, at least three
> ways: it gives us the option to customize code when it won't do what
> we want; it presents an opportunity to acquire transferable skills; it
> is cheaper.
>
> For example, if I can't get code to work--to perform a specific
> task--it is because either a) I don't know how to do it, or b) because
> it can't be done. The cost of determining a or b, and in proceeding
> from a or b in WO exceeds that of our current selection of OSS tools
> and leaves us with only a WO solution the problem. Learning _why_
> something doesn't work is significantly more valuable to us than
> simply learning how to get it working.
>
> The reasons for our decisions include some that are specific to our
> environment, however some of the more general rationale for these
> decisions include: the availability and variety of documentation for
> Struts/J2EE/OSS vs WO (WO has relatively little), the semantics of the
> WO-API (which have HUGE learning curve implications), the cost, market
> for, and likelihood of requiring professional support (with WO you pay
> a lot, or wait a lot, or cry a lot), and the individual benefit of
> choosing one's own coding toolset (three different IDE's/Editors pose
> no problems in our non-WO projects.)
>
> anyway, I have tremendous respect for WO, it is exquisite. It
> unfortunately has proven to be more of a problem than a solution.
>
> On Feb 25, 2004, at 12:15, Daniel Mejia wrote:
>
>> In the technological road I think that is very hard to find a
>> combination of tools that could make the same job as easy as WO. You
>> can try with many combination of tools, but the cost of
>> configuration, learning curve, integration with other tools, tool and
>> deploy price, etc. probably is bigger than the benefits that you
>> already have with WO.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dave Varon
> Software Development Director
> Information Technology & Telecommunications
> WGBH Educational Foundation
> <email@hidden> <617.300.3850>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
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