Re: WebObjects Foundation
Re: WebObjects Foundation
- Subject: Re: WebObjects Foundation
- From: Ian Joyner <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 11:56:43 +1000
On 23/08/2006, at 6:20 AM, Chuck Hill wrote:
On Aug 22, 2006, at 8:01 AM, Michael Warner wrote:
I found this post to be one of the most spot on. Senior WO
developers have stepped up on the list, post WWDC 2006. That is
both praiseworthy and
reassuring. Yet the fact remains that apart from the important
issues of lack of marketing and of built-in, up-to-date user-
interface and other convenience tools,
the difficulty of learning adequate and best-practice ways of
manipulating existing code, for the beginning or journeyman WO
developer, remains a paramount
consideration.
If I may wax old-school for a moment -- actual, physical books can
make a huge difference in this situation.
I will argue (from some experience) that the situation makes a big
difference in publishers wanting to publish books.
And it's much more volume driven than even 10 years ago. Prentice
Hall and AW have been swallowed up by Pearson. I've not seen a
Springer Verlag in ages. All the publishers that did small run more
academic and better reviewed books have gone. Then you might be
clobbered by internal politics/egos in the publishers. My own
experience was to have a very enthusiastic project manager who was
successful, so successful he got a large promotion just after the
book was published. The guy that stepped into his shoes... well it
wasn't his project was it, so it didn't get promoted. In fact, the
original guy cc'ed me on a mail (he obviously wasn't meant to) that
made it clear his successor was not interested. So that's the thing,
not only do you need to get a publisher, but you need to get one that
follows through on the sales.
Books on WO and Wonder are not going to make them popular. WO
and Wonder being popular will drive the demand for books which will
then get written. Publishers don't like to invest money in books
if they don't have a reasonable expectation of selling them.
Unlike some of the existing web-based
information-sharing tools, books are expected, except for errata,
to be very accurate -- even authoritative! I'm looking here at
Addison-Wesley's "The Java Developer's Guide to Eclipse." 2nd
Edition. The book (not chosen at random) including the extensive
index, is over 1000 pages long. And that is just for an IDE.
I hate these phone-book tutorial-style books. (I even find OOSC II a
little thick, even though it is maybe one of the best books by the
clearest writer on OO.) Just got Brian Goetz's book on Java
Concurrency in Practice, and that's a nice slim volume.
For a code-base as extensive as WebObjects, especially if Project
Wonder is included, several volumes would need to be written.
Imagine browsing your local Barnes and Noble shelf and running
across the 5 volume series 'Developer's Guide to WebObjects' each
volume as thick as the Eclipse Guide mentioned above. Imagine
each volume being something like the Joshua Marker book on
steroids -- with clearly stated steps and helpful diagrams, even
on advanced topics.
Is this do-able? Very much so.
IME, no not really.
I agree with Chuck. Writing a book is a lot of work and then you are
not guaranteed any success. I like Marker's book for its conciseness,
and it finally helped me get into WO in the first place. Forget the
steroids! – that's the Microsoft approach of "let's fill up shops
with big boxes" to make our products look bigger. Although, I agree
with Michael that having several shelves full of books on one subject
is impressive, but 200-300 pages is about right.
How about getting Apple and O'Reilly perhaps to sponsor such a
project?
What is their motivation?
Certainly, gone are the days when Apple sponsored or even fostered
new out there ideas. The Kays and Teslers were shut down. Can't blame
Apple too much, they have a good stock of people in Cupertino, and it
was a question of survival and having their goals straight. Microsoft
bought up people like Jim Gray, C.A.R. Hoare, Luca Cardelli, but I
don't see much coming out of these people any more.
How about asking a handful of WO experts to assemble teams of
writers, each with practical experience in a particular branch of
the code base, to write a chapter or two? Start with a 'core'
book and branch out from there. Learn from the limitations of
each of the existing WO books. To be a contributor to such an
enterprise would (a) make a carefully thought out contribution to
the WO community, (b) be a feather in one's cap if done well.
I have been thinking about this sort of book for a while, sort of a
Cookbook approach to various topics. I like the idea a lot!
There has not been a lot of interest on the publishers side. If we
manage to get the community organized and populated, then selling
such an idea will be very easy.
That sounds very hopeful!
Chuck
Two years from now books on the shelf could be a reality. The
mere existence of such books would make a statement, even a
marketing statement, that WO is excellent, reliable, hugely
scalable, time-saving and here to stay.
So, to the senior wo developers out there I make this hip-hop
enhanced plea -- show current and future WO developers, and even
their bosses, 'how to get down' . Do it in clear, concise,
detailed and carefully considered text.
Mike Warner
_______________________________________________
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
This email sent to email@hidden