Re: Reusable translated button
Re: Reusable translated button
- Subject: Re: Reusable translated button
- From: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 10:17:08 -0700
Taunts, retorts, and comments below.
On Aug 22, 2006, at 7:35 PM, Jerry W. Walker wrote:
On Aug 22, 2006, at 8:12 PM, Anjo Krank wrote:
Am 23.08.2006 um 00:59 schrieb Jerry W. Walker:
I'm now (finally) using Project Wonder primarily because a client
wants AJAX features and PR seems to provide them in WO in a
better integrated fashion than I'm likely to find anywhere else.
Having said all of that, I'm still going to complain (criticize),
but before that starts any flames, please read to the end where I
will offer my support.
The Ajax stuff can be had without the rest. You'll need to copy
the relevant code from ERXSession (savePage and the transaction
records), but that's about it.
Also, as you didn't quite hatch yesterday, I doubt that PW is
really for you. I'd guess that your private frameworks from the
last 10 years will certainly match what we have.
Watchit, young'un!
Unfortunately, after having left a company last December, my
contributions to those (copyrighted) frameworks are probably no
longer available for my current commercial efforts. This serves as
an even stronger motivation for me to contribute to open sourced
frameworks.
Heh. And I thought you were just Olde School and wrote it all from
scratch each time.
* lack of easy access to documentation
Which means what? JDs can be easily had inside of Eclipse (all
XCode users, well...)
JDs inside of Eclipse (or even Xcode for that matter) already
presume that the developer has made a sufficient commitment to
trying these frameworks that he/she has downloaded the PW source
code and has given Eclipse (or Xcode or IDEA) access to the
frameworks. This only occurs after the developer has decided that
he/she wants PW bad enough to make that effort. Granted, some are
more willing to explore than others, but there willingness to
explore seldom correlates to their need for the frameworks.
Well, not quite. The Wonder codebase builds (and documents) from Ant
at the command line. That should be pre-installed on your machine.
So, no need to load them into Eclipse to build. I use the Wonder
frameworks in some Xcode projects that I am working on now. It is
just as painless / painful as with the better IDE.
My concern, and the effort that I would like to contribute, is to
make PW more accessible to developers who haven't made that
commitment. I want to provide the random WO developer with the kind
of documentation (and ease of access) that will first answer his/
her up front questions (what IS this thing? Do I want it? Do I
need it? What impact will it have on my current environment? How do
I make it happen?) to his/her more detailed questions (If I go with
PW, how do I have to change my logging configuration? How do I
display request/response headers and contents for deeper debugging?
If something goes wrong in my production app and the exception is
thrown in a PW framework, how do I debug it?)
We try to fix and enable a ton of things in a rather transparent
manner, meaning when you don't do anything, you should be ok.
However, the more advanced your code base is, the less this might
work and the more likely things will break.
Which is why I think that Bill Bumgarner was totally wrong last
year: Wonder *is* exactly for beginners. You may have problems, or
you may not understand 5% or it. But it contains 99% of what you
will build for yourself if left on your own, only that it works.
The stuff we do is in parts very much different from - say - the
GVC support frameworks. In particular the localization, xml and
configuration support needs to do things that inherently clash
with others. This is not exactly open to debate. I for my part
spent a ton of time at logic united to integrate what we have here
to what Wonder provides and it wasn't pretty, but that is simply
the way it is. So, well... tough.
I'm offering to document some of this, not to advocate a new
architecture. I'm sure we will see some things quite differently
(documentation, for instance) but I think you will find my
contributions valuable as time progresses. (I hope so).
IMO, documentation is all that is needed. The benefit of PW is that
is quietly insinuates itself into your app. The drawback of PW is
that is quietly insinuates itself into your app. For a new user it
can be hard to know what is going on and why and how to control it.
Perhaps some more logging by the various integrations as they self-
install would help in this.
I said it before in nicer terms, but: I don't give a hoot for
people not using Eclipse. They will go the way of the Dodo in very
short time (IDEA users: I think you have the same means to access
JDs as other more advanced IDEs, if not, I don't really know why
you'd use it).
When you use Eclipse, you have a source.jar for all the frameworks
that will provide you with all the JD that is there. If you're not
using Eclipse, I shed a tear for you, but that's about it.
Yeah, I've shed a few about that myself after hearing the rumors
from WWDC bouncing around. At least this is one thing that you and
Chuck agree on.
We agree on everything except when I am wrong. :-) Mike Schrag had
a good quote at WWDC, "Those of you who don't like Eclipse, well
you're wrong. But that's OK. Sort of..."
Look: I really believe that you are a total WO crack and all.
Heh, guess I fooled you.
I think he meant crackpot. :-P
IMO, you shouldn't either, as I think the names of the classes are
for the most far good enough to give everyone the idea what they
do and by now people should *know* that for most of their problems
there is a solution in Wonder and I think we can expect them to
simply take a look.
We expect people to look in google before posting a question, too,
don't we?
Yes, but they don't.
So, has Google completely replaced RTFM? I want there to be a FM
before I ever suggest that to someone.
STFW?
Chuck
--
Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific
problems. http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
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