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Re: WOBuilder in the future of WO?
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Re: WOBuilder in the future of WO?


  • Subject: Re: WOBuilder in the future of WO?
  • From: Galen Rhodes <email@hidden>
  • Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:00:45 -0500

There's more to work than just coding (although I wish that was all). If you don't work from home then you, of course, have commute time (which I would count as part of work since without work you wouldn't be commuting), endless meetings (welcome to corporate America), constant distractions (email, phone calls, IM), documentation, test plans, misc. business crap, etc.

I'm amazed at the number of people who forget about commute time when they figure how long they spend at work. Even if you only have a 30 minute commute (door to door) then there's 5 hours a week that you don't have to spend doing other things (unless you listen to audiobooks). I know a lot of people in metro areas who spend almost 10 hours a week commuting.

--
Galen Rhodes
email@hidden

"There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him."

-- Robert Heinlein --



On Jan 22, 2007, at 3:00 PM, Miguel Arroz wrote:

Hi!

No offense, but if you are **permanently** working 50-60 hours a week, than there's something wrong with your job/company! And by "working" I understand "coding". Software engineering is an area where thins evolve fast, too fast sometimes. But that's a fact. The only way to keep up is by learning new things. And part of our work should be just that. I was a little surprised when saw messages in this mail-list from people that still had Obj-C apps running, and they were thinking about running them in Rosetta on the new intel machines. This is NOT the way to get things done. Things change, technology changes, everything changes. We must all be ready for that. WebObjects could even be terminated. Just like that. With luck it would be released in open source. The worst case would be "it's over. Go home.". And when that happens, we must move along to. We cannot stay here crying about how bad the world can be. We change. We adapt. Or we go live in a farm and take care of little pigs and cows like I will do someday! But until that, never stop learning, evolving and adapting.

And about Eclipse... trust us, if you learn it, you will work a LOT faster. You'll do more in the 50-60 hours, or you'll do the same in less time.

  Yours

Miguel Arroz

On 2007/01/22, at 19:45, Galen Rhodes wrote:

Productivity is a very subjective thing.  Kind of like taste.

The big point that is coming out of all of this is that many of us have invested a lot of time and energy becoming familiar with xcode/WOBuilder/EOModeler and have habits and instincts that suit us just fine, thank-you.

But now Apple is more or less pulling the rug out from underneath us and telling us to drop everything and take the time to learn a new way of doing things. And we're not happy about it!

When you're already working 50-60 hours a week just to meet current deadlines it makes you angry to have someone say "just take the time to learn Eclipse." Some times life just doesn't work that way. Not when you have a host of other commitments outside of work.

Maybe we are a bunch of whiners but I still feel that our point is valid.



On Jan 22, 2007, at 2:31 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

I don't recall of _anyone_ every wanting to go back once they understood enough of Eclipse (figure on a mostly productive week).

Well, maybe other than Georg....  :-P

Chuck


On Jan 22, 2007, at 11:28 AM, Ken Anderson wrote:

Honestly, for me, productivity went forward by leaps and bounds when I switched to Eclipse/WOLips. I don't know about anyone else, but I found that debugging WO (especially with lots of frameworks) with xcode was extremely painful, requiring lots of recompiles and manual references. Maybe I was doing something wrong, but in Eclipse, it 'just works'.

I'll never go back!

Ken

On Jan 22, 2007, at 2:18 PM, Jonathan Miller wrote:

Hi,

I've taken the plunge (started using Eclipse) and it is really not that bad at all. Matter of fact the only issue that I saw that is a real problem, is it does not out of the box compile applications for SSDD/WAR correctly. It took someone from the list to help me get this going. Other than that, I see no reason to go back to XCode. Eclipse can be modified to add code completion support for not only HTML, but CSS and JavaScript too. So, in many ways it is a better web page design tool than WOBuilder. Have a look at www.aptana.com

re: Who has the time? Unfortunately (fortunately?), I believe this profession requires you to learn new things all the time and this is just one more instance of it.

BR

Jon

I keep hearing the phrase's "once I converted my projects" and "once
I got use to Eclipse/WOLips." That's a really big problem for a lot
of us who REALLY DON'T HAVE THE TIME!


We don't have the month or more to figure out and acclimate ourselves
to Eclipse/WOLips and painstakingly convert all of our projects and
frameworks (which I'm still fighting with). Combine this with the
fact that now I'll be editing my HTML and WOD files by hand and we're
talking a serious loss of productivity. (and time... and money...)
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Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.
http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects






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"We have no sympathy for the lost souls
We've chosen the path of disgrace
We give this life to our children
And teach them to hate this place" -- Apocalyptica, Life Burns!

Miguel Arroz
http://www.ipragma.com



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References: 
 >WOBuilder in the future of WO? (From: Jonathan Miller <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WOBuilder in the future of WO? (From: Ken Anderson <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WOBuilder in the future of WO? (From: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WOBuilder in the future of WO? (From: Galen Rhodes <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WOBuilder in the future of WO? (From: Miguel Arroz <email@hidden>)

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