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Re: WOBuilder Replacement
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Re: WOBuilder Replacement


  • Subject: Re: WOBuilder Replacement
  • From: Mike Schrag <email@hidden>
  • Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 08:30:55 -0400

Those estimates were all for starting from scratch, which I believe is what should be done (Apple will not release the source to the original, anyway -- I've brought it up several times over the last couple years). To do a WOBuilder properly, it needs to be rethought. WOBuilder now is built like IB, but that's really not exactly right, because in a proper system, you're dealing almost entirely in custom components and you can only really render custom components with live-like data (or in a live environment). I have some ideas for this, but a lot of it just comes down to interface experimentation to see what works and what doesn't. If we built a WOBuilder, we would really only build one that I would use, too, so it has to not suck (this quite possibly means such an app is not an Eclipse plugin, but just has an eclipse plugin integration layer along the lines of how WOB + PB/Xc work).

I think about this app all the time, but I just have not yet seen the economics. I asked at WWDC who would pay "real money" (granted, an unspecified amount) for a WOBuilder and VERY few hands went up in a pretty large room of WO developers. I'm with Jerry ... I am just not convinced that there would be enough licenses sold to justify such an effort. Who knows .. Maybe I'm wrong. Speak up with #'s and prove me wrong. Email me directly if you're not comfortable posting on the list and I'll post some aggregates. Like I said, I think about this all the time, but I have to be able to go to my boss (who graciously already lets me donate huge numbers of man-hours to this stuff as it stands) with some sort of justification for putting people on a project like this for several months.

ms

On Jul 5, 2007, at 6:34 AM, Jerry W. Walker wrote:

Although $500 might be a fair reward for such a tool, I truly doubt that enough parties would pay it to cover Chuck's and Mike's estimates.

I think that there are few on this list who individually, or whose companies, would pony up $500 per developer head for an undeveloped piece of software. That would mean that either some one or two companies underwrites the development, or the developers work for about a year on no pay until they have a product to market, then they might get paid, but only after people have taken the time to download and test the resulting product and found it worthy. That latter activity can take a few months for many in the community.

Once they have the new WOBuilder in hand, how many of them will hold the old WOBuilder in the other hand and say, "Hmmm... $500 for this one and the old one is FREE along with the WO frameworks, all the other development tools and Project Wonder! Does it make sense for me to spend $500 on this one tool. Nah, we can get by with the old tools till they cease to function, then we can keep a couple workstations running the old versions of Mac OS X and WO to get by for a few more years.

To Chuck and Mike, was your "... estimate of US$100,000 to US $150,000 ..." based on starting from scratch, or on building from the original WOBuilder's Objective C codebase? If Apple provided the code base, would that reduce the estimate in your opinion?

I think building a new WOBuilder is a worthy objective, but I don't realistically believe that whoever does it will recoup the money indicated by estimates of the sizes given.

Regards,
Jerry

On Jul 5, 2007, at 4:58 AM, Simon McLean wrote:


On 5 Jul 2007, at 09:53, Jean Pierre Malrieu wrote:

Let's say 500$ for a fully functional, polished EntityModeler / WOBuilder bundle...
That would be a fair reward, considering all the stuff Mike gave to the community.

Now that is a fine idea.

Simon
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  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: WOBuilder Replacement
      • From: Clark Mueller <email@hidden>
    • Re: WOBuilder Replacement
      • From: Janine Sisk <email@hidden>
    • Re: WOBuilder Replacement
      • From: Lachlan Deck <email@hidden>
    • Not an Eclipse Plugin
      • From: Sam Barnum <email@hidden>
References: 
 >Re: WOBuilder Replacement (From: Jean Pierre Malrieu <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WOBuilder Replacement (From: Pascal Robert <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WOBuilder Replacement (From: Jean Pierre Malrieu <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WOBuilder Replacement (From: Simon McLean <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WOBuilder Replacement (From: "Jerry W. Walker" <email@hidden>)

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