Re: Leaving WebObjects
Re: Leaving WebObjects
- Subject: Re: Leaving WebObjects
- From: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 14:07:00 -0700
On Apr 8, 2008, at 1:40 PM, Lachlan Deck wrote:
Hi there,
On 09/04/2008, at 4:50 AM, Robert B. Hanviriyapunt wrote:
For some time now, my company has been set on leaving WebObjects.
We have been running WebObjects 5.2 on Windows servers.
For some time WO5.3.3 has been out... and free. And WO5.4.1 is also
out.
We haven't moved 100% yet, but my next project will be using
JavaServer Faces. And another fairly new project will be using
OpenLaszlo with our existing J2E back-end.
Company's reasons for leaving:
1. WebObjects is proprietary
So is Windows. Why aren't they running BSD or Linux? ;-)
Touché! I see this as more of a manufactured justification than a
real reason.
2. New versions of WebObjects is not supported on Windows
What do they understand by support? The frameworks can be used on
*any* platform
Windows is not an officially supported platform. There is the matter
of a web server adaptor on Windows. There are options, but it is not
a supported, out of box experience.
3. Perceived lack of knowledgeable WebObjects programmers (I'm in
the Chicago suburbs -- Northbrook, IL, to be precise)
Perhaps they've not been paying attention to the mailings lists.
(specifically: webobjects-dev, wonder-disc, woproject-dev).
I think they meant "lack of unemployed, knowledgeable WebObjects
programmers". Most (all?) of us are gainfully employed most of the
time. Good WO developers are a little hard to find.
We do NOT use:
1. Xcode/WebObjects tools [Xcode or WOBuilder or EOModeler] (except
for me on a MacBook Pro -- only because I requested it)
Hardly anyone uses Xcode, WOBuilder, EOModeler anymore -- especially
if you're on Leopard. They use Eclipse/WOLips which is much better
and improving in leaps and bounds all the time.
http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/WOL/Home
- perhaps you/they've not had a look through the wiki... tutorials etc
2. EOF
If you're not using EOF - what part of WebObjects were you using?
Not the really nice parts apparently. Not using EOF? WTF?
3. WONDER
That's a huge loss - especially given that they're big on non-
proprietary frameworks.
Well, IIRC, Wonder does use EOF. :-P
4. Servlet container (which I do not prefer anyway)
I personally enjoy WebObjects development and wish that WebObjects
would be more palatable to companies such as mine.
I do understand where companies (or more specifically, management)
are coming from when they get nervous about a certain technology
such as WebObjects. For years Apple was quite silent about
WebObjects. e.g., Bug reports went unnoticed, updates didn't seem to
be a priority. But that has turned around quite dramatically in the
last couple of years... ironically beginning with the announcement
of the tools deprecation.
Oddly, probably one of the best things to ever happen to WO! Largely,
of course, to the obsessive Mr. Schrag.
The community is thriving and Apple (i.e., the employees) are also
contributing in significant ways and being proactive about bug
reports and taking part in the mailing lists.
The parrot is definitely not dead and we DO have that sort of cheese.
Please excuse the ranting, but I want someone at Apple to know that
as great as WebObjects technology is [I personally think it is the
BEST I've seen anywhere], it is losing ground because if it's lack
in thet top 3 items mentioned. I wish so bad that Apple would do
something about it.
Personally I think Apple has done something about it - and for the
better. But as I've explained, you're only left with one argument:
proprietary. You can't argue with management, unfortunately, when
their on the buzz word bandwagon of open-source despite the maturity
of a particular framework in comparison to other stuff...
Certainly if it's completely closed and there's no possibility of
customising stuff... but we've already mentioned WOnder (or Houdah,
or similar frameworks)
I'm guessing people's response will be: Don't hold your breath.
Perhaps you held it too long and didn't realise what's happened
these last few years ;-)
Grin.
Chuck
--
Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific
problems.
http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
_______________________________________________
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
This email sent to email@hidden