Re: Bringing back the dev tools
Re: Bringing back the dev tools
- Subject: Re: Bringing back the dev tools
- From: Pascal Robert <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:10:03 -0500
I agree on some of your points, but not on others. It's true that
WOLips is not a RAD environment like WO Builder/Xcode was. Most
people who complain about WOLips are either part-time programmers or
people who were using WO to build quick prototypes. BUT I see WOLips
as a best pratices enforcer: it's better to have packages, you should
use sub-components, you should use CSS, etc.
For people who use tables and never use sub-components, it's true it
was easier with WO Builder. But if you are using sub-components,
CSS, etc., WOLips is WAY WAY WAY better. And WOLips Java editor is,
again, WAY ahead of Xcode's Java support. We packaged ~40 projects
(who were using the default package) in less than... 2 hours. It's
quite easy: you refactor the first project, install it with ant, and
on the projects who use the first project, you do Command-Shift-O on
the Sources folder, and voilà, you let WOLips/Eclipse magic going on
for 2 minutes.
We migrated 78 projects to WOLips, and so far the only things that I
really miss are: preview of the pages (it's especially useful for our
old projects with generic names for the bindings and with lot of
tables in the same component), the ability of adding variables and
methods from the WO Component editor and drag&drop of bindings.
Clark,
I object to your condescending tone.
I have been using Eclipse exclusively as my WebObjects development
environment ever since Apple's announcement that it was dropping
the dev tools. While I am willing to accept that Eclipse may be a
fine JAVA development environment for PROGRAMMERS, nothing in my
experience with eclipse has convinced me that it will EVER be a
more productive WEBOBJECTS development environment for me or my
clients.
I have been developing software for more than 30 years, but I don't
ever want to be a programmer. I have ten years worth of WebObjects
libraries and modules to call on in my work, mostly developed by
me, so programming is not something I have to do a lot of. The
simplicity and elegance of the Apple tools allowed me to focus
exclusively on the customer goals without getting bogged down in
programming. My main development tool used to be WO Builder. I have
given Eclipse a very solid trial, and I still believe that XCode
would be a more productive environment, in terms of functionality
delivered to the customer, if the dev tools worked.
Regards
Thomas
On 23/02/2008, at 8:15 PM, Clark Mueller wrote:
Seriously, give it up... try Eclipse for more then ten minutes at
a sitting, and you will learn to love the productivity boost it
offers. The old tools WILL actually permanently stop working one day.
Clark
On 23 Feb 08, at 1:47 AM, Thomas wrote:
Dave,
I'm interested, but I'm wondering about a few things:
- XHTML 4.0 standard html?
- WO 5.4 inline tags like <wo:string value="[whatever]"/>
- html/api-only (no wod) components?
- those bugs I used to swear at all the time, but mercifully seem
to have forgotten... like pasting a tag from one component into
another page, and all the quoted attributes disappear, like
whatever: WOKeyValueConditional {
key = "session.something";
value = "some text";
negate = true;
}
becomes
whatever: WOKeyValueConditional {
negate = true;
}
I seem to swear as much at Eclipse as I used to swear at WO
Builder, but I'd be very wary of going back to XCode now that I
have become more-or-less productive with Eclipse...
Regards
Thomas
On 23/02/2008, at 6:19 PM, David Elliott wrote:
Well, I finally did it.
If anyone is interested, both EOModeler and WebObjects Builder
from the Xcode 2.5 release can be made to work in conjunction
with Xcode 3 on Leopard. This includes the ability of
WebObjects Builder to talk with Xcode 3 so it can display the
variables from associated Java source files.
I also determined that Apple built WOJavaPBXHelper.pbplugin to
support GC mode so with a small Info.plist hack you can let
Xcode know it's okay to load it which allows you to use the web
assistant as well as click on links in backtraces.
So far I have encountered only one bug. In WebObjects Builder
closing the last open component for a given project will result
in Xcode choking and WB hanging waiting for a reply when you go
to open another component from the same project. An easy
workaround is to always leave at least one component open. If
you accidently close all of them, quitting WB before opening a
new component will fix the problem.
Anyway, I'm trying to gauge if there's any interest in this and
whether it's even worth my time to release it. So reply and let
me know if you're interested.
-Dave
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