Re: About instance's integrity. (was Re: Webobjects-dev Digest, Vol 5, Issue 1141)
Re: About instance's integrity. (was Re: Webobjects-dev Digest, Vol 5, Issue 1141)
- Subject: Re: About instance's integrity. (was Re: Webobjects-dev Digest, Vol 5, Issue 1141)
- From: "dododo2020 dododo2020" <email@hidden>
- Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:48:50 +0900
Hello Lachlan,
Thank you for replying to all my words.
> > I would like to answer some questions for clearifying what I mean.
>
> Sure.
>
> >> <...>
> >>> WO is a mature product.
> >>> But mature is a before-death from a point of marketing.
> >>>
> >> Somehow ... death == marketing?
> >>
> >
> > In general there are a life cycle pattern in technology.
> >
> > Early adapters ........ Practical users ........
> > Consumers........death
> > This is a life cycle of Innovation.
>
> To be clear - death only happens, as we know, when life ceases.
> Furthermore, the death of software is not immediately pending after
> consumers start buying into such technology. It depends on the
> usefulness of such technology (or in various cases on shrewd
> marketing). It also depends on whether that technology continues to
> solve the problems and challenges that are in demand (whether by few
> or by many).
>
> Death may come for a particular /version/ of a piece of technology.
> Death may even come in terms of the way a particular piece of
> technology is delivered.... but this by no means suggests that,
> because of a focus shift for example, that death has arrived. No, this
> is called innovation and/or making a decision for the future allowing
> you to focus on what will continue to move forward.
>
> Various parallel cycles occur.... So to take your example (extended)
>
> conception ... development ... testing ... early adopters etc
> conception ... development ... testing ...
You are right for the practical development cycle.
And I agree that software or conception may not die as you said.
It is a continuing process.
But what I meant here might be a little bit confusing.
From a point of marketing in general(chasm),
death means something like no-vendor-support,to-opensource,becoming-free,no-upgrading,no-power-to-the-market,no-reason-to-use-it etc....
I don't mean WO is dead or will die or such FUD related things.
I may think that current WO may be on the Practical stage and not on the early adaptors' stage.
As you know WO was expensive before.(early adaptors' stage)
And became cheap.(I started to use WO from this stage)
And Apple stopped the support for Windows and Solaris deployment recently.
And as you told me developing the tools was stopped.(I thought that XCode for OSX might be upgraded for WO a few times after the support of deployment and development in Windows were stopped. I don't know the details about recent versions.)
For me it seems that WO is also on a life cycle of techenology roughly.
And it is not contradict with the gradually growing community or interest on WO.
Because apple may be delegating something for the community.
> > I mean I want an innovation in WO for external users too.
>
> Many in the community have lamented Apple's efforts in promoting WO to
> the world over the years. You can glean the list archives for the
> yearly pilgrimage to such mailing list threads about how WO is dead
> because it's not being promoted. I mean, even a simple 'Hello, World!'
> every now and then on some company's website (who remains nameless ;-)
> would raise the profile and perhaps peak various people's interest in
> the technology.
>
> That said, I have been on this list for some years now and can
> confidently say that I've seen the community growing over the last few
> years. The technology remains relevant and is improving. Apple's
> focusing their efforts on the core technology (rather than the tools)
> and the community has supplied many complimentary things (WOLips,
> Wonder, Houdah, WOWODC, various blogs and wikis and training and so
> forth). All signs that WO is far from dead and is kicking on.
>
> To be fair - it is not the buzz word on people's lips (depending who
> you talk to of course). But buzz words don't always solve problems. In
> some cases, the marketing has been so good that even though many would
> wish the technology to die it has lived on [1].
>
> What you need to weigh up - is whether the technology in question will
> help you achieve you goals better/worse than something else. That will
> at times depend on what you're familiar with using.
>
> > If you know some of marketing you may understand what I mean.
>
> Well, I'm not an expert in marketing (though am familiar with it
> nonetheless) but leaving the marketing team to make technology
> decisions without consultation with those who's job it is to utilise
> such technology is not a 'good thing'.
>
> [1] You will know what I mean :-)
> > I am a Windows WO user.
>
>
> > I got lots of problems from Projectbuilder.e.g. compiling
> > issues,adding
> > multiple files,package handling...
>
> Eclipse/WOLips has been available for over two years. Have you not
> checked the wiki? This is actively developed and used by most. If you
> find issues .. submit a bug report and it will get fixed.
I didn't hear Houdah and WOWODC. And checked the site readily.
Thank you.
I don't mean anything to ignore the existing efforts.
If someone felt such I am sorry but I don't mean it.
I encountered some errors with some libraries or
I could not take time to fix the problems or understand.
It might be from version incompatibilities or something.
I thought that
in a limited time or resource
something to output greater results would be better.
Eclipse is slow for me.
And I felt there were some problems or something to tweak around the library about OS,WO version and etc.
(I had an experiance that my emails were ignored by a WO library commercial vendor about OS,WO version related problems.So this might effect my feelings about the OS,WO version related problems.)
I don't want to tweak about OS,WO version etc.
Ant and plugins for WO didn't work for me in a fixed time.
But I could get the same result with just hundreds of code.
For now it is Ok for me.
What I wanted to point out is that
I wished something to make people to join WO development newly more and more like ROR.
I myself think WO is better than ROR.
But what I told here was a solution for innovators,early adaptors or non-WO-users and not for existing WO users or practical WO users.
I myself had told to some people about WO that it is the first application server and mature technology.
But there may seem to be high hurdles around WO for most new developers or companies.
Mostly people don't want to tweak to setup just a development environment or learn a library with just a reason that it is elegant or rewarding some day.
What I like in WO is that
less-xml,GUI tools,flat files compositions and built-in-easy-session-management.
But I feel honestly that I don't want to experience some locking problems or heavy tweaking for a long time in EO with complication.And I feel that the single-threading-compatibility is just a result of consistency of legacy library.
And I found that the shared heap solution was opensource and free.
I thought that it might solve my problmes in a limtied time.
Just it.
I hope that WO developers increase anyway.
Many thanks.
Best regards,
Ken
> > For me it seems that apple abandoned Windows users.
>
> I've mentioned this already - so I'll say it once again. They've
> stopped developing the tools on *all* platforms for WO (ProjectBuilder
> etc). You now use Eclipse. This is the way forward.
>
> > And most of Jave
> > developers don't know what WO is.
>
> Feel free to mention it to them. You might even be able to show them
> after you've installed Eclipse/WOLips and gotten familiar with it.
>
> > I think I can not say that using OSX and keeping WO to be the latest
> > is the
> > best for them.
>
> Not really relevant I would think.
>
> with regards,
> --
>
> Lachlan Deck
>
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