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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider
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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider


  • Subject: Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider
  • From: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>
  • Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 15:42:15 -0700


On Jul 8, 2009, at 3:09 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

seriously? I remember the exact inverse statements being made when, only four-ish years ago, they tied WO's release schedule back into the main development tools. I think it's good news, but hopefully it means that they'll stop developing their unnecessary deployment that virtually nobody uses and focus on the frameworks instead.
Oh, you mean that deployment style virtually everybody but a few folks are using should be dropped?
I've since reinterpreted Bill's comment to mean "everyone in the world of java" not "everyone in the world of wo" ... And I would agree with that, and there are technologies that are actually very similar to pieces of the WO deployment system that would be worth investigating to find the ideal solution to this problem.

Yes, I'll not argue that the current system is ideal! Or that we can't usefully leverage some of the other technology out there. Like you, I am not convinced that a J2EE container is a better solution. It is certainly a valid solution and makes it much, much easier to find cheap commercial hosting.



We're really in no different of a position than something like Rails is, except that we actually have a "nice" gui for managing clustering whereas everyone else is hand editing apache files. If you look at modern rails deployment, you'll find a pretty similar progression to what WO has (cgi, fast cgi, mod_proxy_balancer, custom apache module, etc). I don't think deploying in a J2EE container is necessarily the best solution, and in fact makes deployment HARDER in many cases (it's kind of nice that you can just run your main method and get a running server ... there's a lot of value in that that should not be discounted). I would love to see war deployment not suck and be less clunky -- I think switching to jar frameworks probably makes a lot more sense for j2ee deployment, for instance.

I've said it before -- Our zero state story is crappy: how do you get wo, how do you start making wo apps, how do you launch them, how do you debug them, how do you deploy wo, what if you are deploying to an environment that doesn't have wo installed. Once you get your environment going, these things MMMMooossttllly sort of kind of work right. But getting from zero to there sucks, and I believe every single one of those can be made better.


No argument from me on any of that! I just wish that I had more time to devote to it.

Chuck

--
Chuck Hill             Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.
http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects







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References: 
 >A WebObjects article on Appleinsider (From: Paul Stringer <email@hidden>)
 >Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider (From: David Avendasora <email@hidden>)
 >Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider (From: William Hatch <email@hidden>)
 >Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider (From: Guido Neitzer <email@hidden>)
 >Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider (From: Mike Schrag <email@hidden>)

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