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Re: Hudson and Client-Side Classes
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Re: Hudson and Client-Side Classes


  • Subject: Re: Hudson and Client-Side Classes
  • From: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>
  • Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:32:03 -0700


On Jun 15, 2009, at 6:30 PM, Michael Schrag wrote:

Maven == Ant cubed. Or maybe Obsfucated Ant. :-P
Chuck, are you speaking from experience here or just shootin' the breeze? David, do you know how much 'set-up' is required to use maven with Hudson?
All this toying around with environments etc sounds tiring. :-)
I've had the pleasure of using Maven some now and you're not really giving the full story here ... So far, any time something has gone wrong in Maven, it's been a completely nasty pain to diagnose. At least with ant, it's stupid simple for better or worse.

That has been my experience as well. It is probably different if you have worked on building the Maven support, but for Joe User wandering into a Maven project and trying to track down what is wrong has been much harder than doing the same in an Ant project. Even old Ant projects where they used some XML DTD hack to simulate importing. Dependancy management is Maven's forté, not transparency.



Mind you, I'm not an ant fan either -- I have the exact same hatred that Chuck has, but it's really misleading to suggest that Maven will just magically fix all your build problems. It makes a class of problems easier, but it brings along a bunch of its own new ones as well.

<notDirectlyMavensFaultIDontThinkButRelatedPain>On top of the core Maven complexity, I can't even leave the maven plugins installed in eclipse because it pretty well destroys my WOLips plugin development environment by (as far as I can tell) fiddling with my project classpaths incorrectly. I'm wondering if maybe because there's a pom up higher in the wolips checkout (even though I import subprojects that don't have poms) that it's screwing with maven into trying to do things that it shouldn't, but i really have no idea. i just know that when the maven plugins aren't installed things always work and when they are, seemingly randomly all my plugin projects break.</ notDirectlyMavensFaultIDontThinkButRelatedPain>

When it comes down to it, SOMEONE has to do the heavy lifting both in Maven and in Ant. In Maven, you guys have done a bunch of work on the custom archetype stuff, and in ant we've done a bunch of work on the custom build.xml that the WOLips project uses. I use completely stock ant build files from WOLips and it takes me literally about a minute to setup a new project in Hudson that builds along with its dependencies -- I really don't feel any pain with this. Dave is obviously something a little different than most here,

Oh, Dave is a LOT different than most! :-P


and I suspect there are edge cases in both the Maven tooling as well as the stock build.xml's. If what you're doing is outside of what the author of your build tools intended, you're going to have a bad day, no matter what you're using.


True fact, that.


Chuck


-- Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Come to WOWODC'09 in San Fran this June!
http://www.wocommunity.org/wowodc09/

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References: 
 >Hudson and Client-Side Classes (From: David Avendasora <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Hudson and Client-Side Classes (From: Mike Schrag <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Hudson and Client-Side Classes (From: David Avendasora <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Hudson and Client-Side Classes (From: David Avendasora <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Hudson and Client-Side Classes (From: David Avendasora <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Hudson and Client-Side Classes (From: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Hudson and Client-Side Classes (From: David Avendasora <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Hudson and Client-Side Classes (From: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Hudson and Client-Side Classes (From: Lachlan Deck <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Hudson and Client-Side Classes (From: Michael Schrag <email@hidden>)

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