Re: Complimentary App Server Choice
Re: Complimentary App Server Choice
- Subject: Re: Complimentary App Server Choice
- From: Philippe Rabier via Webobjects-dev <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 01:10:28 +0100
We considered using Typescript but we faced weird behaviors so we gave up. Too
much stuff to learn at the same time. And it should help developing your code
but it doesn't help when you work with external libraries.
And I remember Benoit Marchant (MontageJS) saying: "if you want to embrace the
web, you have to learn JavaScript".
I forgot to mention we use also Vue on the front side which is really good.
Much simpler to learn than React or Angular.io.
To be honest, I won't use node for my next adventures. I would consider Go,
Swift or maybe Kotlin/Java. Or Python if I'm using Google Cloud Functions
because the code is small so the dynamic language is not a pain (but I never
try yet so I dunno). But GCF is very appealing.
Philippe
————————————
Sent from my iPhone
> On 19 Feb 2020, at 23:44, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev
> <email@hidden> wrote:
>
> Typescript tries to give you a more Java feel to JavaScript - maybe you
> could try that? You can use it via npm and cli or in an ide
>
>
>
>>> On 19 Feb 2020, at 20:12, Philippe Rabier via Webobjects-dev
>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>
>> Hi Tim,
>>
>> I worked as CTO in a company where Node has been chosen and I didn't want to
>> trouble the team and continue w/ the same technology.
>>
>> So I decided to jump in the train and learned JavaScript, node etc.
>> It's not an easy language if you want to get benefit of the dynamic part of
>> the language.
>>
>> What I disliked a lot is the fact it's very complicated to refactor the code
>> because as you know it's not a typed language so you discover the bug while
>> code execution. As a result the app must be fully tested. It's really not an
>> option. I used Webstorm which is a great IDE but can do very little when you
>> refactor the code or when you need to include modules (like the import in
>> java).
>>
>> Moreover, the eco-system is poor quality compare to java libraries. Often
>> libraries are not maintained. I remember my team using ftp client which
>> worked great but then the provider changes to ftp over ssl and the library
>> didn't support it so we have to choose another one which was not well
>> designed.
>>
>> If you follow this path, I recommend using Koa rather than express.js which
>> is the most used library w/ node but Koa is really well designed and more
>> recent. (Koa is like ERRest ;-)). We used also MongoDB v4 which is better
>> than I thought (and much better than it was in the past). We used Mongoose
>> which is like an ORM but as it's a document database it's a bit different.
>> Moreover Mongoose "encapsulates" pure JavaScript objets (like EO compare to
>> pojo) so we had from time to time to copy the mongoose object into pure
>> JavaScript object to use other libraries like lodash (a must have library).
>>
>> So I have a mixed feeling about this environnement. But as a friend said:
>> with Java compiler even a young developer (or bad one) creates a code that
>> runs. Not the case with javascript where code can be ugly very easily.
>>
>> Philippe
>> ————————————
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>>> On 18 Feb 2020, at 20:40, Tim W via Webobjects-dev
>>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for this Lon.
>>>
>>> As I begin contemplating a move from WO -> Cayenne, I’m really appreciating
>>> hearing what folks are using from a front-end perspective. Wicket looks
>>> like a pretty interesting one and from a familiarity perspective may be the
>>> best I’ve seen coming from a WO background.
>>>
>>> Since I haven’t made the leap I don’t know how folks are binding various
>>> front-end technologies, like angular etc., to a ORM backend. I’m assuming
>>> by moving toward web api’s.
>>>
>>> From a non-familiarity perspective (and focused more on broadening
>>> skillsets), I’m thinking of looking at Node.js to leverage ORM experience
>>> but also branch more into front-ends the way the kids are doing it. I don’t
>>> expect many from the WO army have gone that direction but curious to hear
>>> of any experiences.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>> UCLA GSE&IS
>>>
>>>> On Feb 14, 2020, at 10:50 AM, Lon Varscsak via Webobjects-dev
>>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We've settled on Apache Wicket (apps are being re-written from WO) with
>>>> Apache Cayenne (EOF-like but more modern). I love both, I would be sad if
>>>> I had to use a different toolset.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 12:14 AM Jérémy DE ROYER via Webobjects-dev
>>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> And about wo components framework ?
>>>>>
>>>>> What are you using with Bootique ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jérémy
>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 13 févr. 2020 à 23:08, Matthew Ness via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>> <email@hidden> a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Bootique.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We've had various types of Bootique apps in production for years now to
>>>>>> great success, some with the Cayenne module directly derived from older
>>>>>> WO apps/dbs, some communicating with existing WO apps, others simply
>>>>>> processing tasks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>> http://logicsquad.net
>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-squad/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, at 11:25 PM, Andrus Adamchik via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> My opinionated take is the following:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort
>>>>>>> under https://jakarta.ee/ . The "appserver" concept has almost
>>>>>>> disappeared and morphed to something different. All the past market
>>>>>>> leaders have moved on to more lightweight solutions, though some still
>>>>>>> cling to .war deployment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are looking
>>>>>>> to build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are not
>>>>>>> constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better platform
>>>>>>> in the modern appserver-free world. Bootique is "commercially-viable"
>>>>>>> in a sense that there are hundreds of apps that run in prod for a
>>>>>>> number of years. But it is still an open source effort supported by
>>>>>>> community and a mid-sized company (ObjectStyle), so it is sometimes an
>>>>>>> uphill battle in organizations that are looking to conform to the
>>>>>>> lowest common denominator.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So you decide :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andrus
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for that… it looks really interesting…
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it a commercially viable alternative to some of the others like
>>>>>>>> JBoss, Tomcat, Websphere etc..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would like to add another feather to my bow but not really sure
>>>>>>>> which architecture to devote time to so that I can work on bigger
>>>>>>>> projects in a team...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 13 Feb 2020, at 11:16, Andrus Adamchik <email@hidden>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It
>>>>>>>>> gives you a plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way to
>>>>>>>>> assemble various components together (and also modularity, dependency
>>>>>>>>> injection, consistent configuration and a large collection of
>>>>>>>>> ready-to-use modules). The app can serve web requests, run jobs or do
>>>>>>>>> whatever.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster, and
>>>>>>>>> doesn't feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are
>>>>>>>>> automatically equipped with POSIX CLI.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Andrus
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>>>>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>> Please excuse iOS autocomplete
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>>>>>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration
>>>>>>>>>>> other than WO what would you choose and why?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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