Re: Complimentary App Server Choice
Re: Complimentary App Server Choice
- Subject: Re: Complimentary App Server Choice
- From: Tim W via Webobjects-dev <email@hidden>
- Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 10:19:34 -0800
Thanks for all these thoughts Philippe! Have you investigated any of the
swift-based web frameworks like Kitura or Vapor? I may poke around with them a
bit - but I need to learn swift first.
I do like the availability of java libraries and jdbc connectivity.
Tim
> On Feb 19, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Philippe Rabier via Webobjects-dev
> <email@hidden> wrote:
>
> We considered using Typescript but we faced weird behaviors so we gave up.
> Too much stuff to learn at the same time. And it should help developing your
> code but it doesn't help when you work with external libraries.
> And I remember Benoit Marchant (MontageJS) saying: "if you want to embrace
> the web, you have to learn JavaScript".
>
> I forgot to mention we use also Vue on the front side which is really good.
> Much simpler to learn than React or Angular.io <http://angular.io/>.
>
> To be honest, I won't use node for my next adventures. I would consider Go,
> Swift or maybe Kotlin/Java. Or Python if I'm using Google Cloud Functions
> because the code is small so the dynamic language is not a pain (but I never
> try yet so I dunno). But GCF is very appealing.
>
> Philippe
> ————————————
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>> On 19 Feb 2020, at 23:44, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev
>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>
>> Typescript tries to give you a more Java feel to JavaScript - maybe you
>> could try that? You can use it via npm and cli or in an ide
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 19 Feb 2020, at 20:12, Philippe Rabier via Webobjects-dev
>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Tim,
>>>
>>> I worked as CTO in a company where Node has been chosen and I didn't want
>>> to trouble the team and continue w/ the same technology.
>>>
>>> So I decided to jump in the train and learned JavaScript, node etc.
>>> It's not an easy language if you want to get benefit of the dynamic part of
>>> the language.
>>>
>>> What I disliked a lot is the fact it's very complicated to refactor the
>>> code because as you know it's not a typed language so you discover the bug
>>> while code execution. As a result the app must be fully tested. It's really
>>> not an option. I used Webstorm which is a great IDE but can do very little
>>> when you refactor the code or when you need to include modules (like the
>>> import in java).
>>>
>>> Moreover, the eco-system is poor quality compare to java libraries. Often
>>> libraries are not maintained. I remember my team using ftp client which
>>> worked great but then the provider changes to ftp over ssl and the library
>>> didn't support it so we have to choose another one which was not well
>>> designed.
>>>
>>> If you follow this path, I recommend using Koa rather than express.js which
>>> is the most used library w/ node but Koa is really well designed and more
>>> recent. (Koa is like ERRest ;-)). We used also MongoDB v4 which is better
>>> than I thought (and much better than it was in the past). We used Mongoose
>>> which is like an ORM but as it's a document database it's a bit different.
>>> Moreover Mongoose "encapsulates" pure JavaScript objets (like EO compare to
>>> pojo) so we had from time to time to copy the mongoose object into pure
>>> JavaScript object to use other libraries like lodash (a must have library).
>>>
>>> So I have a mixed feeling about this environnement. But as a friend said:
>>> with Java compiler even a young developer (or bad one) creates a code that
>>> runs. Not the case with javascript where code can be ugly very easily.
>>>
>>> Philippe
>>> ————————————
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 18 Feb 2020, at 20:40, Tim W via Webobjects-dev
>>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for this Lon.
>>>>
>>>> As I begin contemplating a move from WO -> Cayenne, I’m really
>>>> appreciating hearing what folks are using from a front-end perspective.
>>>> Wicket looks like a pretty interesting one and from a familiarity
>>>> perspective may be the best I’ve seen coming from a WO background.
>>>>
>>>> Since I haven’t made the leap I don’t know how folks are binding various
>>>> front-end technologies, like angular etc., to a ORM backend. I’m assuming
>>>> by moving toward web api’s.
>>>>
>>>> From a non-familiarity perspective (and focused more on broadening
>>>> skillsets), I’m thinking of looking at Node.js to leverage ORM experience
>>>> but also branch more into front-ends the way the kids are doing it. I
>>>> don’t expect many from the WO army have gone that direction but curious to
>>>> hear of any experiences.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>> UCLA GSE&IS
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 14, 2020, at 10:50 AM, Lon Varscsak via Webobjects-dev
>>>>> <email@hidden <mailto:email@hidden>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> We've settled on Apache Wicket (apps are being re-written from WO) with
>>>>> Apache Cayenne (EOF-like but more modern). I love both, I would be sad
>>>>> if I had to use a different toolset.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 12:14 AM Jérémy DE ROYER via Webobjects-dev
>>>>> <email@hidden <mailto:email@hidden>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> And about wo components framework ?
>>>>>
>>>>> What are you using with Bootique ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jérémy
>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 13 févr. 2020 à 23:08, Matthew Ness via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>> <email@hidden <mailto:email@hidden>>
>>>>>> a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Bootique.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We've had various types of Bootique apps in production for years now to
>>>>>> great success, some with the Cayenne module directly derived from older
>>>>>> WO apps/dbs, some communicating with existing WO apps, others simply
>>>>>> processing tasks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>> http://logicsquad.net <http://logicsquad.net/>
>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-squad/
>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-squad/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, at 11:25 PM, Andrus Adamchik via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> My opinionated take is the following:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort
>>>>>>> under https://jakarta.ee/ <https://jakarta.ee/> . The "appserver"
>>>>>>> concept has almost disappeared and morphed to something different. All
>>>>>>> the past market leaders have moved on to more lightweight solutions,
>>>>>>> though some still cling to .war deployment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are looking
>>>>>>> to build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are not
>>>>>>> constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better platform
>>>>>>> in the modern appserver-free world. Bootique is "commercially-viable"
>>>>>>> in a sense that there are hundreds of apps that run in prod for a
>>>>>>> number of years. But it is still an open source effort supported by
>>>>>>> community and a mid-sized company (ObjectStyle), so it is sometimes an
>>>>>>> uphill battle in organizations that are looking to conform to the
>>>>>>> lowest common denominator.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So you decide :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andrus
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>>>> <email@hidden
>>>>>>>> <mailto:email@hidden>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for that… it looks really interesting…
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it a commercially viable alternative to some of the others like
>>>>>>>> JBoss, Tomcat, Websphere etc..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would like to add another feather to my bow but not really sure
>>>>>>>> which architecture to devote time to so that I can work on bigger
>>>>>>>> projects in a team...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 13 Feb 2020, at 11:16, Andrus Adamchik <email@hidden
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:email@hidden>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/ <https://bootique.io/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It
>>>>>>>>> gives you a plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way to
>>>>>>>>> assemble various components together (and also modularity, dependency
>>>>>>>>> injection, consistent configuration and a large collection of
>>>>>>>>> ready-to-use modules). The app can serve web requests, run jobs or do
>>>>>>>>> whatever.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster, and
>>>>>>>>> doesn't feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are
>>>>>>>>> automatically equipped with POSIX CLI.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Andrus
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>>>>>> <email@hidden
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:email@hidden>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>> Please excuse iOS autocomplete
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>>>>>>> <email@hidden
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:email@hidden>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration
>>>>>>>>>>> other than WO what would you choose and why?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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