Re: Complimentary App Server Choice
Re: Complimentary App Server Choice
- Subject: Re: Complimentary App Server Choice
- From: Philippe Rabier via Webobjects-dev <email@hidden>
- Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 20:30:21 +0100
I didn't play. Just reading.
Regarding Kitura, IBM ceased to contribute last year -
https://www.infoq.com/news/2020/01/ibm-stop-work-swift-server/
Maybe someone else has a better and practical feedback to share on swift server
side.
Have a good we
Philippe
————————————
Sent from my iPhone
> On 21 Feb 2020, at 19:19, Tim W <email@hidden> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all these thoughts Philippe! Have you investigated any of the
> swift-based web frameworks like Kitura or Vapor? I may poke around with them
> a bit - but I need to learn swift first.
>
> I do like the availability of java libraries and jdbc connectivity.
>
> Tim
>
>> On Feb 19, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Philippe Rabier via Webobjects-dev
>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>
>> We considered using Typescript but we faced weird behaviors so we gave up.
>> Too much stuff to learn at the same time. And it should help developing your
>> code but it doesn't help when you work with external libraries.
>> And I remember Benoit Marchant (MontageJS) saying: "if you want to embrace
>> the web, you have to learn JavaScript".
>>
>> I forgot to mention we use also Vue on the front side which is really good.
>> Much simpler to learn than React or Angular.io.
>>
>> To be honest, I won't use node for my next adventures. I would consider Go,
>> Swift or maybe Kotlin/Java. Or Python if I'm using Google Cloud Functions
>> because the code is small so the dynamic language is not a pain (but I never
>> try yet so I dunno). But GCF is very appealing.
>>
>> Philippe
>> ————————————
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>> On 19 Feb 2020, at 23:44, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev
>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>
>>> Typescript tries to give you a more Java feel to JavaScript - maybe you
>>> could try that? You can use it via npm and cli or in an ide
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On 19 Feb 2020, at 20:12, Philippe Rabier via Webobjects-dev
>>>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> Hi Tim,
>>>>
>>>> I worked as CTO in a company where Node has been chosen and I didn't want
>>>> to trouble the team and continue w/ the same technology.
>>>>
>>>> So I decided to jump in the train and learned JavaScript, node etc.
>>>> It's not an easy language if you want to get benefit of the dynamic part
>>>> of the language.
>>>>
>>>> What I disliked a lot is the fact it's very complicated to refactor the
>>>> code because as you know it's not a typed language so you discover the bug
>>>> while code execution. As a result the app must be fully tested. It's
>>>> really not an option. I used Webstorm which is a great IDE but can do very
>>>> little when you refactor the code or when you need to include modules
>>>> (like the import in java).
>>>>
>>>> Moreover, the eco-system is poor quality compare to java libraries. Often
>>>> libraries are not maintained. I remember my team using ftp client which
>>>> worked great but then the provider changes to ftp over ssl and the library
>>>> didn't support it so we have to choose another one which was not well
>>>> designed.
>>>>
>>>> If you follow this path, I recommend using Koa rather than express.js
>>>> which is the most used library w/ node but Koa is really well designed and
>>>> more recent. (Koa is like ERRest ;-)). We used also MongoDB v4 which is
>>>> better than I thought (and much better than it was in the past). We used
>>>> Mongoose which is like an ORM but as it's a document database it's a bit
>>>> different. Moreover Mongoose "encapsulates" pure JavaScript objets (like
>>>> EO compare to pojo) so we had from time to time to copy the mongoose
>>>> object into pure JavaScript object to use other libraries like lodash (a
>>>> must have library).
>>>>
>>>> So I have a mixed feeling about this environnement. But as a friend said:
>>>> with Java compiler even a young developer (or bad one) creates a code that
>>>> runs. Not the case with javascript where code can be ugly very easily.
>>>>
>>>> Philippe
>>>> ————————————
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> On 18 Feb 2020, at 20:40, Tim W via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for this Lon.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I begin contemplating a move from WO -> Cayenne, I’m really
>>>>> appreciating hearing what folks are using from a front-end perspective.
>>>>> Wicket looks like a pretty interesting one and from a familiarity
>>>>> perspective may be the best I’ve seen coming from a WO background.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I haven’t made the leap I don’t know how folks are binding various
>>>>> front-end technologies, like angular etc., to a ORM backend. I’m assuming
>>>>> by moving toward web api’s.
>>>>>
>>>>> From a non-familiarity perspective (and focused more on broadening
>>>>> skillsets), I’m thinking of looking at Node.js to leverage ORM experience
>>>>> but also branch more into front-ends the way the kids are doing it. I
>>>>> don’t expect many from the WO army have gone that direction but curious
>>>>> to hear of any experiences.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim
>>>>> UCLA GSE&IS
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 14, 2020, at 10:50 AM, Lon Varscsak via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We've settled on Apache Wicket (apps are being re-written from WO) with
>>>>>> Apache Cayenne (EOF-like but more modern). I love both, I would be sad
>>>>>> if I had to use a different toolset.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 12:14 AM Jérémy DE ROYER via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And about wo components framework ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are you using with Bootique ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jérémy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Le 13 févr. 2020 à 23:08, Matthew Ness via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>>>>> <email@hidden> a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Bootique.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We've had various types of Bootique apps in production for years now
>>>>>>>> to great success, some with the Cayenne module directly derived from
>>>>>>>> older WO apps/dbs, some communicating with existing WO apps, others
>>>>>>>> simply processing tasks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>>> http://logicsquad.net
>>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-squad/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, at 11:25 PM, Andrus Adamchik via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> My opinionated take is the following:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort
>>>>>>>>> under https://jakarta.ee/ . The "appserver" concept has almost
>>>>>>>>> disappeared and morphed to something different. All the past market
>>>>>>>>> leaders have moved on to more lightweight solutions, though some
>>>>>>>>> still cling to .war deployment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are
>>>>>>>>> looking to build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are
>>>>>>>>> not constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better
>>>>>>>>> platform in the modern appserver-free world. Bootique is
>>>>>>>>> "commercially-viable" in a sense that there are hundreds of apps that
>>>>>>>>> run in prod for a number of years. But it is still an open source
>>>>>>>>> effort supported by community and a mid-sized company (ObjectStyle),
>>>>>>>>> so it is sometimes an uphill battle in organizations that are looking
>>>>>>>>> to conform to the lowest common denominator.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So you decide :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Andrus
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>>>>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for that… it looks really interesting…
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is it a commercially viable alternative to some of the others like
>>>>>>>>>> JBoss, Tomcat, Websphere etc..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would like to add another feather to my bow but not really sure
>>>>>>>>>> which architecture to devote time to so that I can work on bigger
>>>>>>>>>> projects in a team...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 13 Feb 2020, at 11:16, Andrus Adamchik <email@hidden>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It
>>>>>>>>>>> gives you a plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way
>>>>>>>>>>> to assemble various components together (and also modularity,
>>>>>>>>>>> dependency injection, consistent configuration and a large
>>>>>>>>>>> collection of ready-to-use modules). The app can serve web
>>>>>>>>>>> requests, run jobs or do whatever.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster,
>>>>>>>>>>> and doesn't feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are
>>>>>>>>>>> automatically equipped with POSIX CLI.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Andrus
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>> Please excuse iOS autocomplete
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other than WO what would you choose and why?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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