Re: Problems with current Apple X11 package
Re: Problems with current Apple X11 package
- Subject: Re: Problems with current Apple X11 package
- From: magenta <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:39:04 -0800
On Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 04:38:36PM -0800, Sean Ahern wrote:
> magenta wrote:
> > > I wonder if what's needed is a little X11 client app that runs
> > > alongside the window manager that would enforce this. If the stacking
> > > order changes, then tell all X windows to raise. That way it would
> > > work with all window managers. I'm sure there's an event it could
> > > listen for if the stacking order didn't change, but the topmost window
> > > was brought to the front of the native window system. Maybe just
> > > "Expose".
> >
> > Won't work with all window managers. pwm, for example. :) (It ignores
> > stacking changes and window movements not generated explicitly by the
> > user.)
>
> Well unfortunately, it may ignore them, but it doesn't prevent all of them.
> I was able to raise an xterm above a sibling in pwm, but the titlebar
> didn't follow it. It does honor "foreign" resize requests. The fact that
> it doesn't honor "foreign" move requests would break more than one of the
> apps that people regularly use here.
>
> But you're right, the little X11 client app I'm suggesting would fail with
> pwm since it doesn't handle foreign stacking changes well. Ah well, I
> guess we'll have to wait for Apple to implement your request.
>
> BTW, check out xwit. It combines the functionality of your xmousekeys
> program with the ability to use the CLI to affect the state of many things
> that you can only get to through the X11 client API (like stacking order).
> I've found it very useful in debugging various X11 things. Random URL:
> http://packages.debian.org/stable/x11/xwit.html
Ooh, cool. Thanks. :)
> > > Personally, I would hate it if all my X11 windows raised when one was
> > > raised. I'm trying not to think about the environment my windows are
> > > in, and instead think about the applications themselves. If I want to
> > > use the Gimp, I want the Gimp to raise, not all of my xterms and
> > > acroread and, and...
> >
> > Yeah, but I use pwm to deal with that as well. :)
>
> Maybe I'm a bit confused then about what you want the X server to do.
> Assume you have your ideal environment: X11.app running so that all X11
> windows come to the front when you raise a single window. How do you "deal
> with" raising a single app (the Gimp) if the X server is configured to
> raise all of your X11 windows at once? Do you have pwm unmap (or shade)
> everything else, so there are no (or few) X11 windows to raise?
Basically, I want the X server to act as its own application unto itself,
and group all X windows together, because that's how I deal with X apps. I
have various clusters of certain kinds of functionality on different
desktops. I rarely have windows which overlap (moreso on my nice 1600x1200
desktop at home than on my dinky 1024x768 iBook, though). To me, the X
desktop is an organic thing, and different parts of the screen are like
different organs.
> > It's at http://www.students.tut.fi/~tuomov/pwm BTW, and I have a (IMO
> > rather nice) set of configuration files for it at
> > http://trikuare.cx/~magenta/projects/ which makes working with my Linux
> > system nearly as intuitive as breathing.
>
> I'm glad that you've found something that works well for you. I checked
> out pwm, and found that it's too minimal for my tastes. Plus the rejecting
> move requests would break apps that I rely on. I've been very happy with
> Gnome and sawfish. I've been able to set up a configuration set that fits
> perfectly with how I operate. I have yet to try them with X11.app,
> however.
I like minimal. :)
> > > Just FYI, OroborOSX has the option of doing it either way. It's called
> > > "Interleave" mode when not all windows raise..
> >
> > And if Oroborus had tabbed window groups, that would mean something. ;)
>
> It wasn't a suggestion that you switch. The only reason I mention it is
> that OroborOSX uses XDarwin, which is the source base that X11.app comes
> from. Consequently, it's at least theoretically possible for Apple to
> easily add this option, so that you would be happy.
Oh, I figured OroborOSX was an OSX-optimized version of Oroborus, not yet
another XFree fork/distribution.
What'd be really cool is if Apple releases their modifications to X11.app
so that XDarwin can integrate the hardware-accelerated OpenGL stuff.
Overall I was much happier with XDarwin's assumptions, since they happened
to fit my needs and usage patterns. :)
--
http://trikuare.cx
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