Re: a modest proposal
Re: a modest proposal
- Subject: Re: a modest proposal
- From: Lotsa Cabo <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 19:55:11 -0400
I'm not totally sure what you were getting at when you mentioned the
cosmetics of Eclipse to the Java guys, but I would have to agree with
them. I don't care about the cosmetics or layout of any application I'm
using. That includes an IDE. For me, it's about productivity. When
comparing two products (in this case XCode vs Eclipse) I am going to
look at what is the most stable, has the quickest response time, and
allows me to get the job done as quickly and flawlessly as possible.
This is why I agree with your statement, "leave Java on XCode for dead"
statement.
As for the ADC page on Eclipse, it was highly transparent. The folks
at Apple are intelligent guys (I realize this, otherwise, I would not
be jumping ship from M$ after 20 years). I am confident that they see
the value in Eclipse and have probably "Oooh'ed" and "Aaah'ed" just
like the rest of us. There are several features in Eclipse that are
downright cool (like the automatic refactoring, code templates,
etc.)... things I'm sure they wish they implemented into XCode. We
know this. They know we know this. We know they know we know this.
My point being is that the ADC page on Eclipse is nothing more than a
way to try and hang onto those few that are trying to not be tempted by
the features in Eclipse... kinda like the "If you can't beat'em,
join'em" mindset. Now, I don't hold that against them. I mean, what
else would they do? Admit defeat? Personally, what I would have
RATHER saw is a page that said, "We agree that Eclipse has some cool
features. We're working with the Eclipse developers and plan to
implement several of their concepts in the next version of XCode.
You'll all have a copy next month."
Bottom line: It's about productivity. I realize many hard core Mac
guys out there will not want to touch Eclipse because it feels too much
like the enemy. Personally, I wish XCode could do half of the things
that Eclipse does. Unfortunately, the cold hard fact is that it
doesn't and it is not as productive for Java development when compared
to Eclipse. I've only been on Eclipse for a week and already I'm
productive. My advice to the folks at Apple would be to hurry up
before those of us that have stopped using XCode get comfortable on
Eclipse. Once we do, even if a version of XCode comes out that matches
the feature list in Eclipse, it won't make logical sense to switch
back.
Just my two pennies...
R/S
Ryan
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On Jun 12, 2004, at 11:10 AM, Frank Rimlinger wrote:
> I just saw a really fine article on ADC promoting Eclipse:
> http://developer.apple.com/tools/eclipse.html
>
> The only trouble with Eclipse is that it is at heart a Windows
> application, and some people (like me) just can't deal with that. For
> example, you are boxed in to this one gigantic frame which is supposed
> to take over your entire desktop. I brought this issue up on the
> java-dev list and the response from the Eclipse crowd was basically
> "we don't care--we don't have too."
>
> But evidently Apple does care, so why not leave java on Xcode for dead
> and divert resources to Eclipse development? There is a precedent for
> this. Anybody remember OS 9?
>
> frank
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