Re: 2.1.1 and xterm
Re: 2.1.1 and xterm
- Subject: Re: 2.1.1 and xterm
- From: Jon Markle <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:13:08 -0500
Hi . . .I'm basically a "lurker" here, not being much of a contributer
in these matters . . . way above my head, most of it. But, I do, from
time to time, attempt to apply the patches, fixes and re-writes
offered up here. The latest install package, I have to say, went
where I assume it was supposed to get installed on my machine, seems
to work without a hitch, so far, and GIMP is (the new version/beta) a
pleasurable wonder indeed to have back up and working again.
I do agree with the observation, at least to my understanding of how
this works, that I never have to launch my X11. By example, Gimp,
when I click on it's icon, causes the X11 to be invoked . . .
"automagically" . . . without any further action on my part and
everything seems to just "work" . . . as it generally does on a MAC.
So, just wanted to thank you all for your very dedicated, hard,
persistent, tedious and tenacious work and for "sharing" it with the
rest of us who are not quite so brilliant.
Jon (an "end user" <GRIN>)
Raleigh
On Dec 15, 2007, at 10:51 AM, Chip Griffin wrote:
On Dec 13, 2007, at 21:25, Jim Elliott wrote:
Let me see if I can jump in as a third party and clarify anything.
Hope so ... :)
Here is what I think the crux of the misunderstanding is, and
please let me know if and how I am wrong: Chip, you believe that
you launch X11 by clicking on its icon in Applications.
Typically, that is how Macs work. I've also done it other ways, but
that is the simplest and the most likely to be performed by most
users.
There is no longer any need to ever launch X11 yourself. The system
is set up through launchd configuration such that whenever any
application tries to use X11 resources, the server is started if it
is not already running. If it is already running, the new
application is simply connected to that existing server.
There is one fundamental problem with this approach. And that is
that depending on your application, and how much of a power user you
are, you may not even be able to find the X application. In my case
it is hidden in a directory that Apple in it's wisdom has deemed as
needing to be hidden. As with standard Unix operating procedure, my
application is neatly snuggled in /usr/local and so I can't get to
it without an act of congress (or at least a terminal window, alias,
or some other trickery). I am a power user, so I can get there if I
want/need, but I'm speaking from the perspective of a non-power
user, an audience we are supposed to be targeting. So although this
new regime is a great idea which I embrace, it is not without it's
problems.
As a convenience for people who used to launch X11 manually to get
an XTerm, there is a visible application which performs that action
by default when launched. So if you do happen to start X by opening
the application, an XTerm is opened. That behavior can be changed
if you want to, through the mechanisms Jeremy described. But the
easiest thing is to simply stop launching X11 manually, and just
use your X applications directly.
Wish I could. Or rather I was there was as easy of a simple
straightforward option. Guess I'm saying I want to eat my cake and
have it to.
So it sounds to me like the only two ways to launch exclusively
the X app I want (and no other) is to either (a) launch the X app
from a terminal window (such as Terminal.app) or (b) edit the
plist where app_to_run is mentioned.
Well, no, you can double-click on that application's icon too.
Touche. With the limits described above. When you can find it, you
will almost certainly find it to be some ugly black box with green
lettering saying 'exec'. And every one of your X apps will look like
that unless you tediously update them with a custom icon on your
own. So great idea, but it's tremendously un-Mac-like and not what
your typical users is going to think of doing.
There are hugely strong reasons for it, but not from the
programmer's point of view nearly so much as from the Mac X11
users' point of view, especially new users coming to the platform.
This I can't buy for the reasons given above. If you'd also added a
system somehow to add icons and make things accessible then there is
a good chance.
It makes vastly many things just work which previously required
user intervention and special cases.
Hmmm. Seems more difficult and special to me now than it did in the
past, but then there are lots of X apps I didn't use in the past. So
guess I need more education.
Right now we're suffering through a turbulent period of change, but
it's for tremendously valuable reasons. I won't repeat them, but if
you dig back through the archives, you can find them. (Someone who
has a message on the tip of their archive might be able to point
you at some fruitful dates.)
I've been here for awhile (listened long before I chimed in) ... but
I just am seeing things much differently then others at this point.
No problem. As I said before, I will adapt as will others.
-- Chip
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