Re: dev tools [was: Re: What makes AppleScript COOL!]
Re: dev tools [was: Re: What makes AppleScript COOL!]
- Subject: Re: dev tools [was: Re: What makes AppleScript COOL!]
- From: "John C. Welch" <email@hidden>
- Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:15:59 -0600
- Thread-topic: dev tools [was: Re: What makes AppleScript COOL!]
On 12/10/2007 11:43 AM, "has" <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>> Non-technical users are blessed with the unawareness that they are
>>>> being sold short.
>>>
>>>
>>> Is it possible to be any more condescending? Does that really help?
>>>
>> If it¹s getting the job done for them, then they, by definition, are
>> not
>> being sold short.
>
>
> You can dig coal with a spoon, and by definition that's "getting the
> job done" too. Or you could use an industrial coal cutter and do it a
> million times quicker and better and not have to work yourself to
> death, but only if you're aware that such a thing exists.
Not everyone only digs for coal. Some folks only need to plant a few posies
in the spring. Care to explain to them why they absolutely need an
industrial coal cutter to dig a handful of small holes?
Being a coal miner does not mean everyone else's hole is miles deep.
>
> Education is everything, and a big advantage that professional Cocoa
> developers have is that they already have lots of it. If a Cocoa
> developer can be educated in AppleScript as well, they can become a
> powerful ally in improving application scripting technologies for
> everyone, not just because it'll enable them to improve their own
> application, but also because they can talk to other Cocoa programmers
> in their own language and thus spread that knowledge amongst
> application developers far more efficiently and effectively than
> someone who only knows AppleScript.
No, that means they can talk about Cocoa-AppleScript issues more effectively
than someone who only knows AppleScript. Being a Cocoa/ObjC expert with some
education in AppleScript does not mean you have the same mindset as someone
cranking out AppleScript for a living, and in fact, that "AppleScript only "
person is probably going to be far better at explaining what a good
implementation needs to look like to scripters than someone who only cares
about it from a dictionary creation POV.
I see far too many applications that have dictionaries which scream, fairly
loudly, that they were designed by someone with just enough AppleScript
knowledge to build a dictionary, but no real experience, because they tend
to look like bad applescript translations of other languages. What you need
to communicate about AppleScript well is in fact, a deep understanding of
both syntax, and real-world implementation. For example, I'm sure Apple
Remote Desktop's copy items tasks:
copy items task
copy to me task
Seem perfectly reasonable to the person who created it, but I can tell you
that this person has just enough AppleScript education to think they really
know it. From an experienced scripter POV, it's a pretty danged dumb way to
do it. There are other examples, I just script Apple Remote Desktop a lot.
> The AppleScript community may be good at many things, but communicating with
> non-AppleScripters isn't
> one of them. If AppleScripters are serious about changing things for
> the better, rather than just talking about it all the time, they need
> to break down the walls that surround this all-too insular community
> and start building bridges.
That knife cuts both ways, and the other side is just as bad. The
non-applescript community tends to say "Well, just learn ObjC and Cocoa"
like it's something you pick up in a fortnight or less, and they say it a
LOT. The best example was one of the...Very Smart Fellers on the FCP team
telling me, and I quote, "Just have the editors learn how to program with C
and XML for your automation."
Ask some of the people in the room, I think I simultaneously gulped, spit-
and double-taked, (took?) at the utter ignorance of that statement. They
aren't the only ones, but that's such a GREAT example.
How long did Adobe *refuse* to implement scripting until Cal Simone started
making a nice bit of change off of said stupidity? "You can't script a
creative application".
On, and on, and on.
BOTH sides need to drop the hackles and realize they need each other, but
it's certainly not all, or even mostly, the fault of AppleScripters. On the
AppleScripter side, I advocate, when possible, using the tyranny of the
checkbook. If you have two applications to choose from, and one has a
well-thought out scripting implementation, and the other doesn't, or doesn't
have one at all, when you pick the one that does, make sure to call a sales
dweeb and tell them the money they lost by not "wasting time" on a scripting
implementation.
I find that loss of new capital is a tremendous inspiration.
--
"Squeaky wheel gets the kick"
Baldur's Gate
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