Re: New Cocoa Programmer
Re: New Cocoa Programmer
- Subject: Re: New Cocoa Programmer
- From: Donald Brown <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 10:05:52 -0600
You are wrong, grasshopper, before you leap like the gazelle you must learn
to crawl like the rat.
OK, I'll can the pseudomystic.
Brian, in order to really understand this, so that you can really get the
whole of the system, and create programs that are what you want them to be,
to be able to do whatever you want instead of putting a few blocks together,
you'll need some basics to build on. Having to learn C is like having to
learn English in order to write the Great American Novel. It's key. Now,
you don't have to be an absolute expert to start, but you need the basics.
And there are classes and books aplenty to get you started.
You don't need to learn C++ or Java, you can learn OOP with Objective-C.
OOP isn't a language, it's a mindset. It's a way of thinking about programs
in a different way than traditional programming. But again, it's part of
the grammar involved. An object is NOT an API.
I went through some of your process, going from Basic/6502 Assmbler, dragged
kicking and screaming into Pascal, then to Object Pascal, then C++. And
ever step, I wanted to just jump right into doing stuff. But if you're
going to be a real developer, you've got to get the fundamentals right.
No, Apple can't do the teaching. Doesn't have the money, doesn't have the
people, doesn't have the expertise. They can do more to make it easier
(they need to do more), but their job is providing tools. The more time
they spend on developing C courses is time they aren't working on new
software or new hardware or even new documentation. But there are sources,
check out the O'Reilly web site, check out other sites, they exist, and
they'll get better. And as someone who has taken the path, trust me, it's
much more satisfying really getting it.
Donald
on 11/10/2001 9:36 AM, email@hidden at email@hidden wrote:
>
If the only goal is getting experienced Java and C/C++ programmers to take
>
the plunge, then you are right. But, if the goal also includes getting
>
folks with less experience excited and proficient in Cocoa/Objective-C,
>
then you are wrong, wrong, wrong! What is the point of starting with C
>
when at least a third of it will never be used at all, and another third
>
will have to be unlearned? Same goes for OOP. You and Apple and most of
>
the gurus want me to take at least a year off and learn at least two
>
languages before even starting on Cocoa/Objective-C? To what end? I have
>
no interest in Java at all, and the thought of having to contend with C++
>
or BillyBoy's latest ripoff, C# is too horrible to even think about. The
>
only three possible reasons I can see for Apple and gurus insisting on not
>
starting with Cocoa/Objective-C in the first place are A: Apple is too
>
lazy or busy or both to bother with teaching beginners, or B: Apple doesn'
>
t think that beginners will ever be of enough value to justify the effort,
>
in which case they are horribly wrong and marvelously shot-sighted or C:
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the gurus who have spent years and years and years climbing to the
>
mountaintop just can't stand the idea that someone starting out today
>
might actually reach the summit in a year or less, which would severely
>
flatten the mountain and presumably lower the status of being on top of
>
what would now be merely a high hill. Oh, the horror of it.
--
Donald Brown
email@hidden
http://www.eamontales.com
We have met the enemy and he is us - Pogo