Re: New Cocoa Programmer
Re: New Cocoa Programmer
- Subject: Re: New Cocoa Programmer
- From: email@hidden
- Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 10:36:34 -0500
On Saturday, November 10, 2001, at 09:19 AM, David Remahl wrote:
It cannot be expected that Apple should teach users C, nor OOP.status
And why the hell not?
If the only goal is getting experienced Java and C/C++ programmers to take
the plunge, then you are right. But, if the goal also includes getting
folks with less experience excited and proficient in Cocoa/Objective-C,
then you are wrong, wrong, wrong! What is the point of starting with C
when at least a third of it will never be used at all, and another third
will have to be unlearned? Same goes for OOP. You and Apple and most of
the gurus want me to take at least a year off and learn at least two
languages before even starting on Cocoa/Objective-C? To what end? I have
no interest in Java at all, and the thought of having to contend with C++
or BillyBoy's latest ripoff, C# is too horrible to even think about. The
only three possible reasons I can see for Apple and gurus insisting on not
starting with Cocoa/Objective-C in the first place are A: Apple is too
lazy or busy or both to bother with teaching beginners, or B: Apple doesn'
t think that beginners will ever be of enough value to justify the effort,
in which case they are horribly wrong and marvelously shot-sighted or C:
the gurus who have spent years and years and years climbing to the
mountaintop just can't stand the idea that someone starting out today
might actually reach the summit in a year or less, which would severely
flatten the mountain and presumably lower the status of being on top of
what would now be merely a high hill. Oh, the horror of it.
Look, I bought into this program because Apple, in "Object Oriented
Programming and the Objective-C Language," sold me on the idea of getting
more bang for every line of code I might write: not having to reinvent the
wheel quite so often, modularity, reusable code, HIGHER LEVEL OF
ABSTRACTION, and other sales pitches. Indeed, if the Cocoa documentation
and what passes for teaching efforts were written as good as "OOP & Obj-CL,
" neither I nor anyone else moaning on this list would have any valid
complaint, and the gurus here who bitch about noise coming from the likes
of me would find a calming quite--assuming they could get over having to
sit on a scaled-down peak. And, by lowering the unnecessary high barrier
to entry for other than already expert programmers, Apple would attract
incredible numbers of new recruits. As it is now, the only thing BillyBoy&
Company do right is a better job of developer support--judging by the
comments of folks here who ought to know. At the very least Apple--or
someone, please, anyone?--should write a comprehensive overview with
detailed examples! And more and BETTER graphics to illustrate the
concepts.
Brian E. Howard
Cocoa Cult Central
hoping for the day I can drop the snide CCC tag line