Re: New Cocoa Programmer
Re: New Cocoa Programmer
- Subject: Re: New Cocoa Programmer
- From: Marcel Weiher <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 18:11:16 +0100
On Saturday, November 10, 2001, at 04:36 PM, email@hidden wrote:
On Saturday, November 10, 2001, at 09:19 AM, David Remahl wrote:
It cannot be expected that Apple should teach users C, nor OOP.status
And why the hell not?
Pardon me? Are Ford and GM required to teach you how to drive? Is a
book author obliged to teach people to read?
If the only goal is getting experienced Java and C/C++ programmers to
take the plunge, then you are right.
There is no need to know Java or C++ in order to learn Objective-C. In
fact, quite a few people including myself would insist that it hurts
rather than helps the process. You do have to know C, because
Objective-C *is* C, minutely extended.
But, if the goal also includes getting folks with less experience
excited and proficient in Cocoa/Objective-C, then you are wrong, wrong,
wrong! What is the point of starting with C when at least a third of
it will never be used at all, and another third will have to be
unlearned?
There is no C you have to unlearn, though it might atrophy a little.
The "unlearning" you might have heard referenced usually refers to Java
or C++, but I can't recall anyone suggesting to learn those first.
Same goes for OOP. You and Apple and most of the gurus want me to
take at least a year off and learn at least two languages before even
starting on Cocoa/Objective-C?
Simply false. Point out the post where any of the 'gurus' here wanted
you to learn Java or C++.
[Wrong conclusions arrived at from wrong assumptions snipped]
" neither I nor anyone else moaning on this list would have any valid
complaint, and the gurus here who bitch about noise coming from the
likes of me would find a calming quite--assuming they could get over
having to sit on a scaled-down peak.
None here have complained about the noise. Not a single one. There has
been a valid complaint about questions that both (a) are really easy to
answer even with a cursory inspection of the docs and (b) have been
answered over and over, sometimes only a few hours ago. These lists are
and should be a great resource for developers, newbies and experts
alike. Many here have been extraordinarily generous with their time and
expertise, which they offer for free.
However, list volume has been growing significantly recently (a good
sign!). In order for the list to remain the valuable resource that it
is, I don't think it is too great a burden to ask of those who have a
question to (a) first check the lists and (b) do a machine-assisted
search of documentation, both on-line and off-line. This applies to the
experts just as much as to the newbiews. Another idea might be to
compose you message, but wait a day to post it...the simple act of
formulating the question quite often makes the answer suddenly appear
obvious..
Marcel
--
Marcel Weiher Metaobject Software Technologies
email@hidden www.metaobject.com
Metaprogramming for the Graphic Arts. HOM, IDEAs, MetaAd etc.