Re: How viable is Cocoa development?
Re: How viable is Cocoa development?
- Subject: Re: How viable is Cocoa development?
- From: "David W. Halliday" <email@hidden>
- Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:02:17 -0600
- Organization: Latin AmeriCom, formerly Latino Online
Matt Judy wrote:
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Actually, I have had to use IOKit quite a bit recently, and it _is_
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intelligently laid out, and not quite a 'non-OO hell'.
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But it is NOWHERE close to the ease of DriverKit. C++, no matter how
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well laid out, is always a pain, and never truly object oriented. With
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DriverKit, I was able to get a driver together for "X" piece of hardware
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in around an hour. IOKit will never match this.
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--Matt
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John C. Randolph wrote:
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> On Friday, January 25, 2002, at 03:49 PM, Ondra Cada wrote:
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>> , DriverKit instead of the non-OO hell of IOKit,
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> I get the impression that you haven't actually looked at IOKit. It
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> certainly is OO code, and the IOKit team was very careful to define
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> "Kernal C++", just like the DriverKit team had once defined "Kernal
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> Obj-C". They didn't make the switch to C++ without careful
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> consideration and design. FYI, the IOKit team is led by an ex-NeXT
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> engineer.
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> -jcr
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> John C. Randolph <email@hidden> (408) 974-8819
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> ...
Looking in the archives I find that Godfrey van der Linden (and, reportedly,
Stan Shebbs) regrets the decision to replace the Objective-C based driver subsystem
with an Embedded C++ based subsystem (DriverKit to IOKit---though this is not,
necessarily, to say that the DriverKit was perfect and wouldn't have needed a
significant overhaul anyway).
See
http://lists.apple.com/archives/darwin-development/2001/Oct/17.html :
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Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:38:28 -0700
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To: Michael Cashwell ,
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email@hidden
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From: Godfrey van der Linden
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Subject: Re: IOKit C++ limitations
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G'dau Micheal,
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The history behind '-fno-exceptions'
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When we decided to change IOKit from Objective-C to C++. (Which I
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now considre to be a very bad mistake). ...
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Godfrey
See also
http://lists.apple.com/archives/cocoa-dev/2001/Aug/10.html :
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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:29:27 -0400
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From: Scott Anguish
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Subject: Re: Cocoa downgrade from openstep?
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Cc: email@hidden, Jean-Francois Veillette , Eric Peyton
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,<email@hidden>
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To: Finlay Dobbie
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On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 04:06 PM, Finlay Dobbie wrote:
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> On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 01:06 am, Ondra Cada wrote:
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>> From the ObjC viewpoint (!!!) IOKit is not and can't ever be
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>> object-oriented, since there's nothing like ObjC objects in C++, and
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>> IOKit,
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>> alas, is C++-based :(((
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> From any *NORMAL* programmers viewpoint, IOKit is object-oriented.
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> I'm not familiar with DriverKit and how it worked, but I suspect that
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> IOKit is lowerlevel, since I can't really see running the ObjC runtime
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> environment inside the kernel as a feasible thing to do.
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Actually, Stan Shebbs mentioned something about this at the
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Stepwise BOF at MacWorld back in January..
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The gist of it was that they'd probably have been better off
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sticking with Obj-C rather than the EmbeddedC++ stuff they went to.
Just a couple of viewpoints from "inside".
David email@hidden