Re: Apple and Developers (was lots of different subjects)
Re: Apple and Developers (was lots of different subjects)
- Subject: Re: Apple and Developers (was lots of different subjects)
- From: Mike <email@hidden>
- Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:19:14 -0800
Here here! Well put!
-m
=========
At 1:07 AM -0500 3/24/02, Andrew R. Mitchell wrote:
All,
I've been following the Cocoa Advocacy/Cocoa's Popularity thread for
days now, and after todays messages I just had to chime in. I'm not
trying to start a flame war here, I'm just trying to provide some
perspective from a long time Mac (now Carbon) developer.
First off, I'm tired of this Carbon vs Cocoa, Objective-C vs C++
flame war that is going on. Both Carbon and Cocoa are key for the
future success of Apple. And neither is perfect for everything. API
choice along with language choice should be based on the task at
hand. Some things Cocoa is better for, some things Carbon is better
for. Some things C++ is better for, some things Objective-C is
better for, and lets not forget some things an alternate language
may be better for (AppleScript, Java, Ada, Smalltalk, Dylan, Perl,
Python, etc). Not every language or API is suited for every task.
We are all Mac developers no matter what language or API we use. We
need to focus on that, not try to rip the platform we all love so
much into separate camps. And lets not forget about the Unix folk
among us that are doing neither Carbon or Cocoa development. They
are Mac developers too.
Second, it is clear from reading this list, the carbon list, other
developer mailing lists, and the developer WWDC issues thread now
appearing on Macintouch <http://www.macintouch.com/wwdcsuggs.html>
(see my comments near the bottom of the Mar. 22 letters) that all
Mac developers seem to be unhappy with how they and their respective
preferences are being treated by Apple. This clearly leads me to
believe that Apple is not doing a very good job of developer
relations in either camp, not just one or the other.
Once you get by our differences, the rest of the problems we have
with Apple seem to be fairly consistent between us. They can be
broken down into the following eight primary issues:
1) Tools/Languages - Clearly we all have our favorites. And we all
feel Apple is slighting us. Apple needs to clearly state that all
are welcome on X. And Apple needs to improve the ones it offers.
2) Documentation - whether it be printed, electronic, sample code,
training materials, etc., Apple needs to do a better job of
providing developer documentation.
3) Performance - we are all tired of seeing, and having our users
see, the now infamous spinning ball. Apple needs to do whatever it
can to improve performance under Mac OS X
4) Bring back <insert technology here> - Whether it's EOF, MacApp &
ACS, Dylan, V-Twin, Open Transport Streams, etc., there are
technologies that certain developers find key to their particular
area of expertise that Apple has abandoned, and we want them back.
Now in all honesty it is probably impossible for Apple to bring
everything we want back, but they should make every effort to give
to the community (ie Open Source) any of the "needed" technologies
that they can't support themselves.
5) Support - we feel Apple is not doing enough to support us, the
Mac development community. This is something Apple really needs to
work on, because it is us that will make this platform a viable
alternative.
6) Usability - The old Mac users feel that X is too Next like. The
old Next users feel that X is too Mac like. In short, it's really a
pretty good merger between the two, but there are lots of very rough
edges there. Apple needs to polish these off as soon as possible.
7) Cost - Some of us are professional developers, some of us are
hobbyists, and some of us fall somewhere in between. Apple needs to
make sure we all have the ability to make great software for the
platform. (One of my requests would be to have WWDC webcast.)
8) Respect - When it comes right down to it, this is probably the
root of most problems, we feel Apple doesn't respect us. While I'm
sure we all made fun of Steve Ballmer's appearence at the Microsoft
Developer conference, and probably most of us laughed at the video
that later appeared (Developers, developers, developers, developers.
...) the point is we don't see that type of enthusiasm coming from
Apple. Not that we want Apple to become Microsoft mind you.
Sure, you can add to this list, and sure some of these could be
broken apart, but this covers a lot of issues that both sides have,
and yes we both have them.
Just keep these thoughts in mind as you try to figure out what you
want to do as a Mac developer community. It can be argued that
Carbon is an outdated API that isn't needed on X, but the same can
be argued about Cocoa by Carbon developers. Neither API is outdate,
they are both needed, and we are all Mac developers.
Keep the peace!
Andrew R. Mitchell
--
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