Re: Apple and Developers (was lots of different subjects)
Re: Apple and Developers (was lots of different subjects)
- Subject: Re: Apple and Developers (was lots of different subjects)
- From: "Andrew R. Mitchell" <email@hidden>
- Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:49:51 -0500
I'm responding to the list since you brought up some very good points
and I wanted to clarify my position.
Please don't presume to speak for all of us. I, for one, am not at
all unhappy with Apple. This is a difficult transition, and they
have a very difficult balancing act to perform. I think they're
doing as well as could be expected, all things considered.
I apologize for using We. There are a great number of Mac developers
(apparently both Carbon and Cocoa) that are not happy with the way
developers are being treating by Apple. So, in that sense I suppose
that the "we" should be applied to those of us that take issue with
developer relations.
Besides which, it's all relative. Apple may be less than perfect -
but who isn't? Have you tried the alternatives recently? Certainly,
Carbon and Cocoa have a few issues - but would you rather be using
GTK+ or even (shudder) MFC instead? I wouldn't.
No, I definitely prefer Carbon and Cocoa to everything else out
there. That's part of the reason I make my living as a commercial Mac
developer (if I could find a new job that is). Also, I thank you for
including Carbon in your point.
1) Tools/Languages - Clearly we all have our favorites. And we all
feel Apple is slighting us.
Again, no, we don't *all* feel that way.
Most Carbon developers feel that Apple is pushing Cocoa as the
"native" API for Mac OS X development. I was surprised recently by
the discussion on this list that Cocoa developers seem to feel
something similar about Carbon. My goal was to try to point out that
people on both sides of the fence feel this way, thereby maybe
helping to bring the two sides together. I realize that we don't all
feel that way.
3) Performance - we are all tired of seeing, and having our users
see, the now infamous spinning ball.
Again with the "we" - you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but
I for one don't share it.
Performance wasn't even on my list of things that I originally sent
to Macintouch. Performance is something that I have seen more
developers bitch about then probably any other topic, so I added here
since it seems to be a concern to both sides. I was looking for
common ground, and I bet that a lot of people out there agreed with
it.
I have a very long history with computers. In every case where
someone has come to me saying "my computer is really slow," "my
computer crashes a lot," or something along those lines, whether
they've been using some kind of Windows, MacOS Classic, OS/X, or
whatever, I've been able to diagnose the problem and fix it.
I've owned a Mac since 1984. I understand and agree with you here,
however the fact of the matter is we continue to see apps not
available on OS X that are available on 9 because of performance
related issues (at least according to the developers). Things are
definitely improving with each OS release however.
What *I* am tired of is end users who blame the OS for all their
troubles. In my experience, in 99 cases out of 100, it's either a
configuration error, a misbehaving or badly optimized application,
or a hardware malfunction that's the cause, *not* a badly-optimized
OS.
I certainly never said this, implied this, or in any other way made
it part of this discussion. And I happen to agree with you 100% here.
Now in all honesty it is probably impossible for Apple to bring
everything we want back, but they should make every effort to give
to the community (ie Open Source) any of the "needed" technologies
that they can't support themselves.
I'm 100% with you on that one.
Ah, at last what my email was about, reaching common ground.
7) Cost - Some of us are professional developers, some of us are
hobbyists, and some of us fall somewhere in between. Apple needs to
make sure we all have the ability to make great software for the
platform. (One of my requests would be to have WWDC webcast.)
I don't understand how cost could possibly be an issue. The
developer tools are free, as is ADC membership. True, WWDC is rather
expensive, but it's hardly a necessity.
An ADC Select membership, where you actually get things like the
developer mailing, access to seeding, and support (which I either
never use, or don't have enough of) is definitely not free. And
personally I use CodeWarrior most of the time, which also is not
free. As for WWDC, given Apple uses this as it's key time to
disseminate information to developers, I think it is important.
Although this year is probably less necessary then the last two years
since things are changing at a slower pace.
8) Respect - When it comes right down to it, this is probably the
root of most problems, we feel Apple doesn't respect us.
Quite the contrary, in fact. After more than fifteen years of costly
development tools and horrid, byzantine APIs, Apple is finally
delivering world-class development tools and an outstanding API, all
for free. It's my opinion that, after years of having no respect for
developers, Apple is finally coming around.
As long as we want to switch to Cocoa (which I realize is the topic
of this list), but the thing to remember is many Mac developers will
probably never switch. Does this mean they are not worthy of Apple's
support? And many of Apple's developer tools (MPW, MacApp, ACS, ...)
have been free for many many years now, but does that mean I haven't
spent money on other tools? No. Finally, not to beat a dead horse
hear but Apple previously offered world-class development tools in
Apple Dylan. As far as I am concerned, IB/PB still has a long way to
go to reach that functionality.
Before I get attacked for being a Carbon programmer and making this
point to Carbon centric, from reading this list (which is after all a
Cocoa list) the impression I got was that Cocoa programmers feel the
same way. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but simply look at the Cocoa's
Popularity (and it's spinoff) threads (of which this is one) and it
leads to the conclusion that I reached.
In his keynote at MWSF, Jobs said that what makes the computer so
great is that it enables everyone to be an author. I think that,
after years of "not getting it," Jobs is finally realizing that that
applies to developers as much as it does to writers, artists, and
musicians. After years of being the computer for "the rest of us,"
the Mac is finally becoming the computer for *all* of us.
Which is what I was trying to convey in my email. Freedom of language
choice, API choice, and for that matter OS choice, is good for
everyone. We (as in all dedicated Mac developers) want the Mac to be
the best development platform on the planet, don't we? For that
matter we want the Mac to be the best OS on the planet, am I wrong?
(Yes I realize I just used we several times.)
This kind of change in philosophy won't happen overnight, of course,
but the attempt is being made, and they're showing some progress. So
give 'em a break already - they're trying.
Based on what I'm reading on this list and many others, while they
may be trying it does not appear that they are succeeding. Which
leads to a key question, what can they do to change this impression?
While I'm sure we all made fun of Steve Ballmer's appearence at
the Microsoft Developer conference, and probably most of us laughed
at the video that later appeared (Developers, developers,
developers, developers. ...)
I'll give you the "we" on that one... I laughed my butt off... ;-)
I still play the "Developers" video when I need a smile. :-) I'm also
glad I managed to bring a smile to your face on this issue.
the point is we don't see that type of enthusiasm coming from
Apple. Not that we want Apple to become Microsoft mind you.
Apple may not be talking the same kind of talk - but they're walking
the walk. They're quietly delivering where it counts, with free
tools and tons of free documentation.
OK, you've hit a major sore point. The state of the world when it
comes to developer documentation is worse (IMHO) then it has ever
been in the history of the Mac. Maybe I have my expectations set too
high, but I don't think so. And from what I've read many others agree.
MS, for all of its talk of supporting developers, still charges
quite a lot of money for their Visual Studio products. Developers,
to MS, are simply another customer segment, and Ballmer's
cheerleading session was simply another marketing ploy. MS has no
more respect for the developers who use VC++ than it does for the
secretaries who use Word. Both are just a source of revenue.
OK, while I don't want Apple to turn into a Microsoft (I really
don't), as someone who has done coding on both platforms I actually
find what Microsoft provides for their MSDN subscription to be a
better value for the money then what Apple charges for ADC. I'm sure
you probably don't agree (as I'm sure many others won't as well). I
personally haven't really felt that the Apple programs were a decent
price to performance ratio since the APDA days. And I really can't
believe I'm defending Microsoft here, please forgive me I didn't mean
too. ;-)
I hope this helps clarify some of my points.
Andrew
--
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