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Re: ObjC 3D engine
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Re: ObjC 3D engine


  • Subject: Re: ObjC 3D engine
  • From: Jonathan deWerd <email@hidden>
  • Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 09:02:38 -0600

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On Jun 23, 2007, at 11:39 PM, Phil Bellalouna wrote:

Jonathan,

As an interested developer, here's my .02:

1) It's worth some level of effort to at least see what the interest out there is. My guess is that there fairly significant if the project addressed the right level of abstraction which you won't know if you have unless you take a shot. The fact that you're considering it sounds like you think what you have might be worthwhile and not simply one-off code. Core Animation is a nice 2 1/2D (i.e. 2D objects in a 3D environment) framework but it doesn't do what I need in a true 3D framework.
Is there another place I should be posting this? Should I go to 3D forums, say gamedev, and post?


2) To a degree, I would. I have a set of needs re: 3D that have been slow going as it's more of a 'nice to have, but can't justify the effort' (3D charting being my primary need currently) so I am chipping away at it *very* slowly and haven't even been thinking in terms of a reusable framework. I'd be quite happy to contribute to any project that I could leverage provided the license is right (i.e. probably something along the lines of BSD or perhaps LGPL which resulted in an open source framework but allow non-open source commercial applications built using it)
Everything helps :)
I am almost certainly going with a BSD license since the mac shareware industry is so healthy. It will be awhile before it is ready, but hopefully we'll get there eventually :)



3) I'd go with a light cleaning (i.e. sweep out commented/dead code and fix or document via comments any grossly convoluted code for exposed parts of the framework) and create documentation for only the most exposed parts of the framework that would most commonly be needed by another developer. Many successful open source code bases started as undocumented, tangled piles of crap that did their job well. Over time, they were cleaned up, reorganized and better documented (Apache is a good example of this) Most critical IMO is that the framework is easily build-able and has at least one example app which demonstrates what it can do. Don't worry about whether it's pre-Alpha, Alpha, Beta, whatever... just be clear in documenting the status of where it is and why it is at that stage but don't apologize for it. After all, if someone could do better, they already would have. My worst experiences have been with code that claimed to be one thing and turned out to be something else entirely.
Good to know. Currently the build process is very buggy (xcode isn't intuitive at all for building nested frameworks), but I hope to have that resolved fairly soon. And the only demo-ish app I have is my proof-of-concept for my paper, but I could probably polish that up and use it.


4) Stick with K.I.S.S. Use the tools that the majority of Cocoa developers are using (i.e. the Xcode tools) which would mean *don't* go with an alternate SCM system. It's a barrier to entry, however trivial, that might turn off someone who's otherwise interested. Also, don't create more work for yourself re: setting up a website, forums, etc. If the goal is to get it out there and see what the interest level is, everything else is misspent effort. Stick with Sourceforge or something similar that will get the most done with the least amount of effort and see what areas where there's a clear payoff from putting more work into. In a lot of ways, your worst nightmare is if it's successful: you'll be plenty busy with feedback/patches/etc. If it goes nowhere, you'll drop it and move on to the next thing.
Sounds good. I'll sign up for a sourceforge project once I have things in a semi-presentable state.

If you decide to move forward with this effort, please let me know as I would be happy to be a guinea pig ;-)
Sure thing :)


Thanks, Phil


On Jun 23, 2007, at 8:51 PM, Jonathan deWerd wrote:

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About a year ago I was looking for a good open-source objc/cocoa 3D engine. After several days of searching, the best I could find were a few outdated and/or abandoned frameworks (note: I could just suck at searching, so if you are working on one don't take offense). I decided that it would be a huge learning experience to write my own, so I did. Or, to be more accurate, I hacked together a bunch of classes which suited my needs. In any case, I now have about 15k lines of cocoa 3D code that I want to put to some use. I will say again that I *do not* have anything resembling any of the mature C++ engines out there. I just have a start, if that. But I would like to get some of your thoughts.

1) Is it worth turning this into an open source project at all (who would actually like a cocoa 3D engine, or does core animation do everything you want)?
2) Who would be willing to work on it with me?
3) If it is worth turning into a project, how much should I clean my codebase before opening it up? Going through and presenting a unified interface, documentation, and convention set would be essential, but a lot of work. Should I do this before opening the project to avoid scaring devs away or would it be best to "harness the power of open source" and do it after? For that matter, should I get it to a working "alpha" stage on my own?
4) What should I go with as far as SCM/forums/website are concerned? Personally I really, really love git for SCM (seriously, check it out. It blows svn out of the water in just about every area, and it's really easy to compile. Just one dependancy, which is itself a clean build on a default dev install of OSX). Should I give up all the git goodness to conform? Should I use sourceforge, host the dev stuff myself (then look for a better webserver when approaching production), or do something else?


And I think that's all I can think of for now. Please tell me what you think :)
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