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[moderator ] Re: ObjC 3D engine
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[moderator ] Re: ObjC 3D engine


  • Subject: [moderator ] Re: ObjC 3D engine
  • From: Scott Anguish <email@hidden>
  • Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:57:08 -0400

this has certainly drifted away from cocoa (in a most productive manner I must say) please try and move the discuss to a sourceforge list, or google code. for releases and betas, please ping this list.

(and for cocoa design issues of course)



On Jun 26, 2007, at 12:47 PM, Jonathan deWerd wrote:.


On Jun 26, 2007, at 9:51 AM, Ilan Volow wrote:

I think what you are doing is a great idea. People new to Cocoa need an easy way to create 3D environments. I started working on a fork of Paolo's stuff a while back with this goal, but I never finished work on it.

My random advice (in order of your questions)

1. Yes. Turn it into an open source project. there's definitely a need. More and more, I'm thinking that mac developers have to be independent from Apple and not peg our hopes and dreams and future on what they *might* realease that *might* work for us.
I have signed up for a sourceforge project and am awaiting confirmation. MIT license :)


2. Sign me up, sir.
Sure thing! What's your SF account?



3. I've always felt that "will people think my code is an awful mess" fear as well. For what it's worth, all the "mature" c++ toolkits are such a mess and so inaccessible to people starting out, I wouldn't worry about it. If you let other people look at your stuff early enough into your project, they have some early input that could help you avoid architectural headaches later on. I think for a project such as yours, cleanness of code is probably less important than excellent, high-quality tutorials for beginners using your API.
Ok. Again, I want to make sure you don't have any misconceptions: this is not a fully working API yet. But I am writing an orientation to my coding style, layout, etc.


4. It's your project. But I think SVN is a better choice, because it is a standard that people already know. You want to lower the barrier to entry on your project.
x2. I have decided to bite the bullet and go with SVN. I will still be keeping my private git repository as a sort of private branch, though. I don't think I will bother with giving SVN the complete history of my git repository since SVN is so slooowwww.


5. Figure out who your core audience is. If it really is people starting out 3D programming for the very first time, speed power and optimization won't really be very important whereas making an easy to use and learn, instant gratification environment is.
I really need to make myself trust in optimization only when necessary. Maybe being in a group will help :)

You could probably write the entire thing in Objective-C/Cocoa and it wouldn't matter. What will really be a killer is if you introduce a c++ toolkit that requires crazy exotic build dependencies with their own crazy exotic build tool--it'll quickly shoot down a novice programmer if they have to hunt down the dependencies and build and compile themselves. Again, instant gratification over optimization.
Right now I *think* I have it building with no non-included dependencies. I don't know about the legalities concerning the Cg framework, I'll have to check that.


-- Ilan



On Jun 23, 2007, at 8:51 PM, Jonathan deWerd wrote:

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About a year ago I was looking for a good open-source objc/cocoa 3D engine. After several days of searching, the best I could find were a few outdated and/or abandoned frameworks (note: I could just suck at searching, so if you are working on one don't take offense). I decided that it would be a huge learning experience to write my own, so I did. Or, to be more accurate, I hacked together a bunch of classes which suited my needs. In any case, I now have about 15k lines of cocoa 3D code that I want to put to some use. I will say again that I *do not* have anything resembling any of the mature C++ engines out there. I just have a start, if that. But I would like to get some of your thoughts.

1) Is it worth turning this into an open source project at all (who would actually like a cocoa 3D engine, or does core animation do everything you want)?
2) Who would be willing to work on it with me?
3) If it is worth turning into a project, how much should I clean my codebase before opening it up? Going through and presenting a unified interface, documentation, and convention set would be essential, but a lot of work. Should I do this before opening the project to avoid scaring devs away or would it be best to "harness the power of open source" and do it after? For that matter, should I get it to a working "alpha" stage on my own?
4) What should I go with as far as SCM/forums/website are concerned? Personally I really, really love git for SCM (seriously, check it out. It blows svn out of the water in just about every area, and it's really easy to compile. Just one dependancy, which is itself a clean build on a default dev install of OSX). Should I give up all the git goodness to conform? Should I use sourceforge, host the dev stuff myself (then look for a better webserver when approaching production), or do something else?


And I think that's all I can think of for now. Please tell me what you think :)
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Ilan Volow "Implicit code is inherently evil, and here's the reason why:"




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References: 
 >ObjC 3D engine (From: Jonathan deWerd <email@hidden>)
 >Re: ObjC 3D engine (From: Jonathan deWerd <email@hidden>)

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