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Re: DTP41 White Backing
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Re: DTP41 White Backing


  • Subject: Re: DTP41 White Backing
  • From: email@hidden (Bruce Fraser)
  • Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:38:57 -0800

At 4:20 PM +0800 2/28/02, joseph wilhelm wrote:
I've found that it pretty much boils down to, if one backing doesn't produce good results, try a different one. When you get results that you can live with, KEEP A RECORD of which backing you used.


This variable results thing can be really confusing for those of us (at least me) who don't have experience with a variety of profiling packages or who are not immersed in profile building. I have certainly learned that ICC color management is capable of wonderful results but it can be difficult to troubleshoot when things are less than wonderful. The people I know seem to weigh the shortcomings very heavily and when a variable screws things up they readily trash the whole icc process. The marketing literature often sets one up for disappointment.

That's more a political than a technological issue...

I would like to hear (very much) how one should go about testing the behavior and performance of a profile. Are there ways of testing a profile other than liking or disliking the results or does this really require broad experience? Liking or disliking is fine but knowing why is even better and having enough understanding to prevent poor profile performance would be great.

You have to take considerable care before you make a profile. Is the measurement data truly representative of the process? (is the process controlled and optimized, and are you making the measurements correctly?) This requires some analytical skills, but mostly boils down to common sense. If the process is shifting, you're chasing a moving target. If you're measuring translucent material, you need to pay attention to the backing over which the measurements are made.

I know that one ultimately has to "see" the results (easy for inkjet/expensive for offset) but what can be learned from a profile before it is implemented? How do you test?

Carefully? One golden rule is to test one profile at a time. That means that all your other profiles need to be already tried-and-true. With press profiles, you can learn a fair bit by cross-rendering press CMYK to a proofer. If the results from the proofer look reasonable, it's likely that the results from the press will be reasonable also. You need experience and understanding of the press conditions too -- there's just no substitute for that -- which allows you to look at the numbers and decide if they're reasonable. Is the profile producing enough ink? Too much ink? You can make rough checks of black generation by looking to see if it's putting black where you don't want it -- fleshtones, for example. But ultimately you have to test on press.

If the answer is trial and error then how can we convince print shops that ICC color management is better than their closed loop systems?

I don't think that's ever been the argument. The point is that for most shops, it's no longer possible to close the loop. Their closed loop workflows are untenable because they have to deal with client-supplied files from who-knows-where instead of doing their own scanning, thus the loop is broken. Some shops try to shoehorn all outside material into their closed-loop workflow, and usually wind up complaining that their clients send them crap. The successful ones have learned to bring outside work into their closed loop (there are several points at which this can be made to happen), and simply don't talk about color management because it's their competitive advantage.

Color management is no different from the proprietary lookup tables on a 1970's Crosfield scanner, EXCEPT that it isn't proprietary. It's just another way to get from A to B. A large part of the problem in the US is that printers treat standards as something to be exceeded rather than met, an attitude which the Europeans sensibly enough don't share.

So every time I write a book, I have to go and profile the press, making sure that the run is actually representative of the way the book will be printed, instead of separating to a press standard with the reasonably secure knowledge that the press will run to that standard. When I sense that the shop is feaful of, or hostile to, color management, I simply deliver final CMYK with no profiles embedded, and tell them to run the job. As a result, it goes smoothly, whereas if I embedded profiles they'd find a way to screw it up. This is not a technology problem...

Bruce
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 >Re: DTP41 White Backing (From: joseph wilhelm <email@hidden>)

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