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Re: Profile compression
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Re: Profile compression


  • Subject: Re: Profile compression
  • From: Tom Beckenham <email@hidden>
  • Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:41:09 +1100

Hi Graeme,

URL substitution wouldn't work for all situations, but its great for an *exchange* as is the intention of PDF/X. If you're intended to keep the file around for archive or reuse then you would want to embed the profile.

Having been in advertising transmission for some time, URL referencing of profiles will be brilliant for sending print ads. In just about all cases (around 99%), a display ad is only ever used once. It can be sent to hundreds of publications in possibly multiple issues, but then that's it. The PDF is almost never used again by the advertiser. The layout document maybe kept, but the same layout is almost always reworked or redone completely for the next ad in the campaign.

If you can imagine a PDF file going to say 300 destinations all an embedded profile, then you can imagine the problem. Usually a file going to 300 destinations is B/W so the profile maybe quite small, but there are cases happening now where this is happening with colour.

In the case of our software, we have grouping mechanisms in our software to minimise the actual number of files sent by the advertiser. The files are grouped by "unioning" publication mechanical specifications but currently a file can only be grouped with destinations that have specified the same profile. We have built- in automated colour conversion to automate the process of preparing one ad to multiple destinations but this has to be done before the file gets sent. There is the option to send PDF/X-3 if the publisher accepts it, *but* you can only set one profile as the output intent, so the advertiser still has to send multiple files. So as more and more destinations are creating custom profiles, the advertiser is having to send more and more files each with an embedded profile.

In most cases, both ends would have the Quickcut software, so there could be a possibility of stripping out the profile, then inserting it again at the other end. If both ends have the full Quickcut suite, then they will both have a mirrored copy of the profiles from the database. However, this situation is rapidly changing. We now have the ability to send into other systems such as AdSend in the US. This will probably happen more and more as we move into other markets and as we move beyond advertising.

So this is why we *love* standards. If we came up with our own partial exchange mechanism, then not only would we have to develop our own way to communicate with other systems, but we would also have to build the trust of the customer as well to accept the new mechanism. Customers are starting to have a huge problem with being locked into a proprietary systems. This is why having a standard like PDF/X is great, because its not vendor controlled, and we know other people will adopt it - including our competitors. In general its much easier to get people to adopt an open standard than it would be to introduce a proprietary feature or a new set of checks.

So yes, I'd like to see the ICC come up with something along the lines of the "bodiless profile" that Chris mentioned, or better yet, come up with a way of organising the profile data so that it compresses better. I think I'll take Chris's suggestion and "Ask Phil" on the ICC web site ;)

Tom Beckenham
Development Manager, Graphics Group - ADG
Adstream Holdings (Quickcut Ltd)
www.quickcut.com.au

BTW: Just in case anyone brings up our involvement in standards. Yes, we have been a little slow to jump on the band wagon, mainly because of resource and also location, but we're fully on it now! We're now members of CIP4, AdsML, Ghent PDF Workgroup, PPA, IDEA Alliance, and we are now looking to help the industry in Australia form a PDF/X technical committee.

On 05/03/2006, at 12:22 AM, Graeme Gill wrote:

Tom Beckenham wrote:

Firstly, I can't believe I missed the URL Profile Specification in the PDF/X-5 spec! I'd actually read through the two specs but somehow missed it. I have actually been working on getting an Australian PDF/X technical committee together, so we can give input into future specs. Big oops on missing that one!

I can't say I'm a big fan of the idea of URLs substituting for profiles
in document files. To me this looks like a way of making files more fragile,
for not a lot of benefit. URL's seem to have a bad habit of "rotting".
Over the years, there have been no end of niggling problems
with fonts, when they are included only by reference. Fonts missing or
mismatching seems to be one of the issues that the latest standards
have tried to address, by going the opposite direction - making sure
that files are fully self contained.


Of course, for a closed application that depends on network
access, there may well be good reason to download various resources
on demand.

I think there's still more that could be done by the ICC in defining a profile format that can be efficiently used by remote users. There are a couple of things I can think of that could extend this idea further. What about being able to reference the tags/tables as separate URL referencable files? This way a CMM could download only the pieces of a profile it needs. Instead of the tag table including offsets, it could include URLs. That way when doing a perceptual conversion for example, you'd only download the perceptual table you need.

Why complicate the ICC standard with such a narrow solution ? Why not instead, simply implement or use a remote file system, with local caching ? The application could just read the parts of the ICC profile it needs remotely, without needing any application code changes.

Graeme Gill.

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References: 
 >Re: Profile compression (From: Chris Murphy <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Profile compression (From: Phil Green <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Profile compression (From: Phil Green <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Profile compression (From: Chris Murphy <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Profile compression (From: Tom Beckenham <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Profile compression (From: Graeme Gill <email@hidden>)

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