Xrite DTP32 and Onyx RIP
Xrite DTP32 and Onyx RIP
- Subject: Xrite DTP32 and Onyx RIP
- From: "Mark Rice" <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:27:11 -0400
I recently located a DTP32. I 'd like to use it with my Onyx RIP, but
neither Onyx nor Xrite know what the settings should be - such as 8 bit,
parity/ noparity,handshakes, etc. All those things we used to have to set
for serial ports in the old days.
Does anyone know what the settings should be?
Thanks,
Mark Rice
email@hidden
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Scanner profiling problem (DT-S1030AI) (Eric Bullock)
2. RE: FA Papers (was: difference hp Z2100 and Z3100).. and OBAs
(Tyler Boley)
3. Re: FA Papers (was: difference hp Z2100 and Z3100)
(Richard Wagner)
4. Re: Scanner profiling problem (DT-S1030AI)
(email@hidden)
5. Re: Scanner profiling problem (DT-S1030AI) (Marco Ugolini)
6. RE: Scanner profiling problem (DT-S1030AI) (Mike Eddington)
7. Re: FA Papers (was: difference hp Z2100 and Z3100)
(Richard Wagner)
8. Re: Scanner profiling problem (DT-S1030AI) (Jim Rich)
9. RGB or CMYK?? (Rick Davis)
10. Re: RGB or CMYK?? (Stephen Clark)
11. Re: FA Papers (was: difference hp Z2100 and Z3100)
(Olivier Desmaison)
12. Re: Scanner profiling problem (DT-S1030AI) (Don Hutcheson)
13. Need advice on profile sw and spectro (Lee Blevins)
14. Re: Need advice on profile sw and spectro (Derek Lambert)
15. Portable Black Light (Marco Ugolini)
16. Detecting fluorescence [was: FA Papers (was: difference hp
Z2100 and Z3100)] (Marco Ugolini)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:13:40 -0400
From: Eric Bullock <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Scanner profiling problem (DT-S1030AI)
To: email@hidden
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Well, the easy way out would be to apply the opposite correction to
your target scan, then process it through ProfileMaker. The poor
man's scanner profile editor!
I'd wager the Screen software just isn't set up right to get the
maximum dynamic range out of the scanner, or some other such
trickery. If you haven't already read it, I would suggest looking at
Don Hutcheson's "Scanning for RGB Color Management" white paper. He
explains the process pretty well. I don't recall if there are
specific instructions for the Screen, but the concepts should be the
same.
http://www.hutchcolor.com/PDF/Scanning_Guide.pdf
I'd also suggest acquiring an HCT target, or borrowing one from a
friend. It makes a pretty noticeable difference, and the target is
supported in ProfileMaker Pro.
On Mar 21, 2007, at 3:03 PM, email@hidden
wrote:
> I've been struggling to profile an old Screen DT-S1030AI
> scanner using ProfileMaker.
>
> The profiles I build seem to invariably and significantly
> darken my scans.
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:39:06 -0700
From: Tyler Boley <email@hidden>
Subject: RE: FA Papers (was: difference hp Z2100 and Z3100).. and OBAs
To: email@hidden
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Look folks, for the life of me I can't figure out how my "contributions"
to this thread have wound up here.
I was merely agreeing with another poster's point that PL is not going
to find acceptance amongst the fine art B&W community, for all kinds of
reasons fair, rational, or not. It's not a matter of right or wrong or
argument, it's just reality. I said nothing about my own preferences.
How these statements deserve the reaction is completely beyond me,
particularly amongst this admirable membership. I guess it's just
comment on my knack for making friends wherever I go.
The OBA issue is interesting. While it is a concern and worth continued
attention, I would simply remind that literally all of our darkroom
papers, and many other papers for other fine art processes, contain
OBAs. Even those people are coating with platinum. Some are not for
creating a bright sheet, but just for batch uniformity. The fact that
they may be the most fleeting element of the paper has not become a huge
issue with existing art to my knowledge. A paper would have to be quite
yellow to begin with to "yellow" as they fade.
It is worth remaining informed, but it's hard to justify being extremely
picky about it right now.
Tyler
>> >I'd love to be able to have the same attitude if it goes with the same
B&W
>> >results I've heard about : I'd pay a lot just to know his B&W settings
but
>> >AFAIK he will not tell.
>>
>
> That's what I would call a "collegial attitude"...not!
>
> Marco Ugolini
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:48:41 -0700
From: Richard Wagner <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: FA Papers (was: difference hp Z2100 and Z3100)
To: email@hidden
Message-ID:
<email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
On Mar 21, 2007, Marco Ugolini <email@hidden> wrote:
> And with "liver spots" too, according to some posts on this forum.
> Yuck...
>
> That's why I was trying to sound an alarm in earlier messages about
> the
> Hahnemuhle Fine Art Paper, which seems to me to be chock-full of OBs,
> despite its manufacturer's claim that it is a paper for "fine
> artists".
Marco,
The colors of Fine Art Pearl really do pop off the page in daylight,
compared with, say, Epson Luster - no doubt in large part because of
the OBs. Much of this effect is lost when FA Pearl is mounted behind
UV-absorbing glass, something that many photographers don't realize.
I searched Wilhelm's web site, and could find zero mention of Fine
Art Pearl, even though the paper has been around for some time now.
I'm wondering how W-R selects papers to test - submissions by
manufacturers, or ???
Interestingly, nearly all current B&W photographic papers contain
OBs. (http://www.wilhelm-research.com/pdf/
HW_Book_17_of_20_HiRes_v1a.pdf The Display and Illumination of Color
and B&W Prints). Digital doesn't seem so bad in comparison.
I would like to see some specific testing data from W-R on Hahnem|hle
FA Pearl and other papers containing OB's.
--Rich
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 14:59:58 -0500
From: "email@hidden" <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Scanner profiling problem (DT-S1030AI)
To: email@hidden
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
> I've been struggling to profile an old Screen DT-S1030AI
> scanner using ProfileMaker.
>
> The profiles I build seem to invariably and significantly
> darken my scans.
Try this:
Open your scan of your IT8 (Q60) in Photoshop
Darken the scan until the black patch reads a 1 in the darkest
channel (R,G, or B)
Save it and profile from this scan.
Rich Apollo
G7 Certified Expert (and all around Good Guy)
314-344-1144
email@hidden
www.prioritylitho.com
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:07:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Marco Ugolini <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Scanner profiling problem (DT-S1030AI)
To: "email@hidden"
<email@hidden>
Message-ID:
<email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
In a message dated Mar 21, 2007 12:13 PM, Eric Bullock wrote:
>Well, the easy way out would be to apply the opposite correction to
>your target scan, then process it through ProfileMaker. The poor
>man's scanner profile editor!
>
>I'd wager the Screen software just isn't set up right to get the
>maximum dynamic range out of the scanner, or some other such
>trickery.
It could be that the scanner profile was built from a scan that was made
with some automatic corrections still active, and that something is going on
during the scanning process that produces unstable results -- and that for
that very reason the profile cannot adequately account for it.
You could go back and review your scanner settings, and make sure that there
is no automatic curve or color or tonal adjustment taking place in the
scanner software. If you find any, turn them off, and then start the
profiling process over again.
And remember that those *very same* settings that you use for the scan from
which you have generated your profile will have to be used after the profile
has been created. After the scan, you then assign the scanner profile to the
scanned image, and from there you convert to your preferred RGB working
space. Profiling is based on the premise of a *stable* and *repeatable*
device. If any of the scanner software settings or of the device's physical
conditions changes, that will invalidate the scanner profile.
Marco Ugolini
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:32:53 -0400
From: "Mike Eddington" <email@hidden>
Subject: RE: Scanner profiling problem (DT-S1030AI)
To: "Giordano Galli" <email@hidden>, "ColorSync Users Mailing List"
<email@hidden>
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>The profiles I build seem to invariably and significantly
>>darken my scans.
The profile itself doesn't look too bad, meaning its doing the best it
can with the provided scan and reference data that created it. Using
ColorThink Pro to do a quick analysis (opening Q60 scan, assigning
scanner profile to derive Lab via abs. col. Rendering, and comparing
with the reference file), gives the following results:
--------------------------------------------------
dE Report
Number of Samples: 264
Delta-E Formula dE94
Overall - (264 colors)
--------------------------------------------------
Average dE: 1.55
Max dE: 2.77
Min dE: 0.23
StdDev dE: 0.44
Best 90% - (237 colors)
--------------------------------------------------
Average dE: 1.45
Max dE: 2.11
Min dE: 0.23
StdDev dE: 0.36
Worst 10% - (27 colors)
--------------------------------------------------
Average dE: 2.34
Max dE: 2.77
Min dE: 2.11
StdDev dE: 0.18
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
That's about on par with profiles I get generated by Gretag Profile
Maker. Looking at the scan of the IT8 compared to IT8 scans from my Hell
3800 scanner, it looks pretty light in comparison. I threw a curve your
Q60 scan to darken it up a bit(as other have suggested), then created
the profile and the results were not quite so dark.
In addition to checking for any auto features in your scan set up, you
also might want to evaluate your it8/Q60 target itself. Does it appear
to have faded? You might want to measure it with a spectrophotometer and
create a new reference file (if you have that ability). IT8 Photographic
targets can last a long time if cared for properly, but I've seen some
bad ones before.
_______________
Michael Eddington
North American Color, Inc.
www.nac-mi.com
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:35:14 -0700
From: Richard Wagner <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: FA Papers (was: difference hp Z2100 and Z3100)
To: Robin Myers <email@hidden>
Cc: email@hidden
Message-ID:
<email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
On Mar 21, 2007, at 1:27 PM, Robin Myers wrote:
> What type of data do you want to see? On my website at
> www.rmimaging.com/information/fine_art_paper.html you will find a
> table with the results of measuring all these papers with and
> without a UV blocking filter on a Spectrolino. You will see that
> OBA was present in the Hahnem|hle Fine Art Pearl. If you need to
> see the exact amount, I can send the data, or a graph of the spectra.
Mr. Myers,
I understand that there are loads of OBs in FA Pearl - I figured this
out long ago with a UV light. What I would like to see are
permanence data for this paper - including the estimated longevity of
the OBs used by Hahnem|hle, and the effects of the OB degradation
products on the pigment inks/paper.
Your articles are excellent - I do recommend them frequently.
Best,
--Rich Wagner
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:42:00 -0400
From: Jim Rich <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Scanner profiling problem (DT-S1030AI)
To: Giordano Galli <email@hidden>, Colorsync list
<email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C22710D8.1934A%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi,
With that type of scanner you have to be sure you have turned off any
automatic correction that might be applied. That means the AI function
needs to be off.
It has been a while since I have seen this scanner up close, but if my
memory serves me correctly and it might not.BUt let me ask, doesn't this
scanner only produce CMYK file and not RGB?
So if you are profiling it as RGB that might be the problem.
Just a thought.
Jim Rich
On 3/20/07 5:21 PM, "Giordano Galli" <email@hidden> wrote:
> Hello
>
> I've been struggling to profile an old Screen DT-S1030AI
> scanner using ProfileMaker.
>
> The profiles I build seem to invariably and significantly
> darken my scans.
>
> To avoid confusion and speed things up while providing
> every detail about what I did, I have prepared a .zip
> comprising an explanatory pdf, three scans, a profile
> and a Q60-E1 reference file.
> The archive is named "DTS1030.zip" and can be downloaded
> via ftp connecting as follows.
> URL: 85.38.63.67
> Username: publicpeek
> Password: publicpeek
> Initial path: left to the server.
>
>
> I would most appreciate any help on this. Many thanks in
> advance for your valuable time.
>
>
> Giordano
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>
> This email sent to email@hidden
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:35:49 -0400
From: Rick Davis <email@hidden>
Subject: RGB or CMYK??
To: email@hidden
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Very new to the world of colorsync, one of those things as a mac user
you just know and expect to be right. I am a macintosh software
specialist in the education world by day and spouse of a signmaker
all the time. My wife recently added large-format digital printing to
her signmaking capabilities. Most of the time it goes quite well as
she designs in FlexiExpert for Macintosh. Everything designed in
Flexi outputs to the Roland SolJet Pro II SC 545EX exactly as it
looks on the screen. The problem is when she gets a file from a
print house or outside designer as an Illustrator file. It imports
into Flexi but the colors are all off comparatively. What she sees in
Flexi and what prints match each other, but they don't match what the
customer sees and expects from Illustrator. To me the colors from
Flexi are richer and more vivid. While the Illustrator colors look
more flat or muted. Flexi handles the RIP and print internally, so
she can't print directly from Illustrator. I can't bring myself to
purchase and install a windoze box just to run the Roland VersaWorks
RIP Server. Especially when I am not sure that would resolve anything.
My question. Should she ask the printers and designers that she
works with to send the files in RGB? Or is there a better way to
match the CMYK files from Illustrator with the RGB world of Flexi?
Feel free to point me at manuals or other resources if this is a
newbie or non-colorsync question.
Rick Davis, ACHDS
thePRIMAXgroup
Cincinnati, OH
(513)910-9490
http://www.applehelp.org
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:20:49 -0500
From: Stephen Clark <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: RGB or CMYK??
To: Rick Davis <email@hidden>
Cc: email@hidden
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
On Mar 20, 2007, at 10:35 PM, Rick Davis wrote:
> My wife recently added large-format digital printing to her
> signmaking capabilities. Everything designed in Flexi outputs to
> the Roland SolJet Pro II SC 545EX exactly as it looks on the
> screen. (snip) Should she ask the printers and designers that she
> works with to send the files in RGB? Or is there a better way to
> match the CMYK files from Illustrator with the RGB world of Flexi?
I'd say first she ought to consult with the folks from whom she
bought the Flexi software and SolJet printer.
If Flexi allows only RGB files to be created for the work she does on
her own, there ought to be a way in which Illustrator files - no
matter RGB OR CMYK - can be imported, then converted to the color
format the SolJet needs to print.
You're too likely to discover files from various outside sources are
created to a wide variety of color parameters (CMYK, RGB, spot color,
4-color, tagged, un-tagged, etc.) that you in no way can expect to
regulate... if you desire to keep your sanity (let alone your
marriage) intact.
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:00:39 +0100
From: "Olivier Desmaison" <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: FA Papers (was: difference hp Z2100 and Z3100)
To: "'ColorSync List'" <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <000e01c76c04$5cd17b90$c46a84c3@pcvid>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
reply-type=original
>>I'd love to be able to have the same attitude if it goes with the same B&W
>>results I've heard about : I'd pay a lot just to know his B&W settings but
>>AFAIK he will not tell.
>
> That's what I would call a "collegial attitude"...not!
>
> Marco Ugolini
Marco, it's just the recognition that some printing technologies together
with selected paper stocks have more commercial value than others, let alone
expertise. It's as valid for color as for B&W printing. Epson selects only
K3 and *some* of its own papers for its Digigraphie quality label. That's
marketing hip ? Maybe.
Olivier
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 18:03:00 -0400
From: Don Hutcheson <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Scanner profiling problem (DT-S1030AI)
To: <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C22723D4.121D4%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Giordano,
If you are working with small-format transparencies (35mm or 6x7cm) you may
be experiencing a relatively well-known optical illusion. If you do NOT see
this problem on larger transparencies (4x5) then your profiles are correct.
You can read about this optical illusion in detail on page 19 of my Scanning
Guide, available free at ...
< http://www.hutchcolor.com/CMS_notes.html >
Other possibilities include incorrect brightness ratio in your viewing
booth, incorrect target reference data, incorrect scanner settings, and/or a
damaged or otherwise flawed target.
Don
On 07/03/21 15:03 Giordano Galli <email@hidden> wrote:
> Hello
>
> I've been struggling to profile an old Screen DT-S1030AI
> scanner using ProfileMaker.
>
> The profiles I build seem to invariably and significantly
> darken my scans.
>
> To avoid confusion and speed things up while providing
> every detail about what I did, I have prepared a .zip
> comprising an explanatory pdf, three scans, a profile
> and a Q60-E1 reference file.
> The archive is named "DTS1030.zip" and can be downloaded
> via ftp connecting as follows.
> URL: 85.38.63.67
> Username: publicpeek
> Password: publicpeek
> Initial path: left to the server.
>
>
> I would most appreciate any help on this. Many thanks in
> advance for your valuable time.
>
>
> Giordano
******************************
Don Hutcheson
HutchColor, LLC
(Color Management Solutions)
Washington, NJ 07882 USA
email@hidden
******************************
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:30:59 -0500
From: email@hidden (Lee Blevins)
Subject: Need advice on profile sw and spectro
To: email@hidden (colorsync)
Message-ID: <1hvc5nn.1s2vd69jzet56M%email@hidden>
I'm going to help a printer (my customer) out with setting up an Epson
9800 in a prepress environment.
In my own shop I use Monaco Proof and a DTP 41 but that combo it seems
has become out of date.
I tried to make sense of XRITE's web site but nothing seemed to really
jump out as a perfect solution.
Those Eye One things that you slide over plastic rail have been
problematic for me so I'd like to avoid them but it may become a cost
issue.
They (XRITE) show on their main page an "Isis" but I couldn't find it on
the products page.
I'm not really married to Xrite. If there is a comparable product made
by someone else please point me to it.
Could somebody please help me find a good combo that is cost effective
and would provide automatic scanning of the profile targets?
I've be very appreciative.
I'm suffering sticker shock at profiling package prices and the cost of
spectros.
The need will be for high quality color reproduction with exact color
matching. This is a good lithographic printer just a little behind the
times in digital processes.
thanks in advance
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:35:06 -0400
From: Derek Lambert <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Need advice on profile sw and spectro
To: ColorSync List <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
try here:
http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/index/products/products_color-
measurement/products_chart-readers/products_eyeone-chartreader.htm
there is also dtp-70 but it is EOL product and I would not buy one
now unless you really get a good price.
-------------------------
Derek Lambert
On Mar 21, 2007, at 6:30 PM, Lee Blevins wrote:
> I'm going to help a printer (my customer) out with setting up an Epson
> 9800 in a prepress environment.
>
> In my own shop I use Monaco Proof and a DTP 41 but that combo it seems
> has become out of date.
>
> I tried to make sense of XRITE's web site but nothing seemed to really
> jump out as a perfect solution.
>
> Those Eye One things that you slide over plastic rail have been
> problematic for me so I'd like to avoid them but it may become a cost
> issue.
>
> They (XRITE) show on their main page an "Isis" but I couldn't find
> it on
> the products page.
>
> I'm not really married to Xrite. If there is a comparable product made
> by someone else please point me to it.
>
> Could somebody please help me find a good combo that is cost effective
> and would provide automatic scanning of the profile targets?
>
> I've be very appreciative.
>
> I'm suffering sticker shock at profiling package prices and the
> cost of
> spectros.
>
> The need will be for high quality color reproduction with exact color
> matching. This is a good lithographic printer just a little behind the
> times in digital processes.
>
> thanks in advance
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
> 40litho-art.com
>
> This email sent to email@hidden
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 21:17:50 -0700
From: Marco Ugolini <email@hidden>
Subject: Portable Black Light
To: ColorSync Users Mailing List <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C227517E.DF51%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 3/21/07 8:08 AM, Anthony Sanna wrote:
> I think I'll take Andrew's suggestion and invest in
> a black light, at the very least, for curiosity's sake.
This is where I bought mine:
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000IAECQU/103-3492544-8862206>
Marco Ugolini
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 22:08:26 -0700
From: Marco Ugolini <email@hidden>
Subject: Detecting fluorescence [was: FA Papers (was: difference hp
Z2100 and Z3100)]
To: ColorSync Users Mailing List <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C2275D5A.DF59%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 3/21/07 9:13 AM, Andrew Rodney wrote:
> On 3/21/07 9:08 AM, "Anthony Sanna" wrote:
>
>> Some questions: Andrew... What's your OB-Checker? Is this a hardware
>> store assemblage?
>
> I use a battery operated Fluorescent black light for location work. I
could
> as Robin did, use my Spectrolino.
Those are the two ways I use too: either a black light, or my EyeOne Pro Rev
B (non UV-cut) to look for a "bump" in the spectral energy distribution of
the paper base in the area around 440nm.
Personally, I haven't yet fully tested the reliability of judging
fluorescence by reading Lab values off the paper base (in which a negative
b* value is regarded as a sign of fluorescence, and a positive b* value is a
sign of its absence).
Marco Ugolini
------------------------------
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