Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 5, Issue 268 (Out of the office until 8/18)
Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 5, Issue 268 (Out of the office until 8/18)
- Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 5, Issue 268 (Out of the office until 8/18)
- From: "Jeffrey Reed" <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:19:18 -0400
I will be out of the office until Monday, August 18.
If you are requesting photo coverage for an event, please contact Earl
McDonald (x75957).
I will be monitoring email messages, but may not reply promtly. If you
need immediate assistance, pleace contact Steven Puglia (x7616).
Jeff Reed
NWTS Photo Lab
National Archives & Records Administration
301.837.0950
>>> colorsync-users 08/14/08 22:18 >>>
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: OT: Power Usage (email@hidden)
2. Re: PS CMYK Conversions (Lorenzo Ridolfi)
3. Re: PS CMYK Conversions (Terence Wyse)
4. Re: PS CMYK Conversions (Marco Ugolini)
5. Re: PS CMYK Conversions (sfprintservices)
6. Re: PS CMYK Conversions (Andrew Rodney)
7. Re: PS CMYK Conversions (Roger Breton)
8. Re: HP dreamcolor screen, any opinions? (Roger Breton)
9. Re: PS CMYK Conversions (edmund ronald)
10. RE: HP dreamcolor screen, any opinions? (Robert Rock)
11. Re: PS CMYK Conversions (Roger Breton)
12. Re: PS CMYK Conversions (sfprintservices)
13. Re: PS CMYK Conversions (edmund ronald)
14. HP dreamcolor screen, any opinions? (J Richter)
15. Re: HP dreamcolor screen, any opinions? (Matt Beals)
16. Re: PS CMYK Conversions (sfprintservices)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:56:09 -0300
From: "email@hidden" <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: OT: Power Usage
To: Stephen Clark <email@hidden>
Cc: ColorSync Users <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;
delsp=yes
I have a server with 4 disks in RAID 1, turned on 24x 7 by 4 years
now, without a glitch.
Disks are set to never sleep, and I believe this is better for the
mechanical parts of disks...
Atenciosamente,
Jorge *gariba* Batista.
GRB Tratamento de Imagem
Rua Gen Bento Martins, , n* 24 conj 702
Porto Alegre, RS, Brasil. CEP 90000-080
(51) 3061 1029.
On Aug 14, 2008, at 2:19 PM, Stephen Clark wrote:
> hard drives particularly - subjected to frequent, controled power
> downs?
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:08:13 -0300
From: Lorenzo Ridolfi <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS CMYK Conversions
To: Derek Cooper <email@hidden>
Cc: ColorSync <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi Derek,
In Photoshop you can convert to CMYK using a regular ICC profile or a
"Custom CMYK" profile. The "Custom CMYK" profiles are based on old
technology and don't have the same quality of a full fledged CMYK ICC
profile.
Please remember that CMYK to CMYK conversions are better handled using
device link profiles, in order to have "fancy" black generation options
between the original black and the final black channels. Device-link
profiles are not supported directly in Photoshop.
Best regards,
Lorenzo
Derek Cooper wrote:
> Hi Gang,
>
> Does anyone have a great explanation for why the conversion to CMYK in
> Photoshop really isn't the best approach for preparing images for
press?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Derek Cooper
> www.reproducingart.com
> www.derekcooper.com
> V 1-613-767-9106
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>
>
> This email sent to email@hidden
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:20:56 -0400
From: Terence Wyse <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS CMYK Conversions
To: ColorSync <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
On Aug 14, 2008, at 8:37 AM, Derek Cooper wrote:
> Does anyone have a great explanation for why the conversion to CMYK
> in Photoshop really isn't the best approach for preparing images for
> press?
As long as your using high-quality *standard* profiles (ISO/FOGRA
profiles or the latest G7 GRACoL/SWOP profiles) and NOT using the out-
dated "Custom CMYK" settings in Photoshop to "roll-your-own", you
should be OK.
I'm assuming if someone suggested to you that Photoshop "isn't the
best approach", they were probably referring to the legacy Custom CMYK
setup.
Regards,
Terry Wyse
_____________________________
WyseConsul
Color Management Consulting
G7 Certified Expert
wyseconsul at mac dot com
704.843.0858
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:34:14 -0700
From: Marco Ugolini <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS CMYK Conversions
To: ColorSync <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C4C9E4D6.16CCD%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 8/14/08 12:08 PM, Lorenzo Ridolfi wrote:
> Device-link profiles are not supported directly in Photoshop.
Esattamente, Lorenzo.
And what a pity that is. I sure hope that our very capable friends at
Adobe
will soon fix that glaring omission.
Marco
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:50:27 -0700
From: sfprintservices <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS CMYK Conversions
To: ColorSync <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C4C9E8A3.2E3A0%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi,
> And what a pity that is. I sure hope that our very capable friends at
Adobe
> will soon fix that glaring omission.
I would much prefer they fix this glaring omission first:
> As long as your using high-quality *standard* profiles (ISO/FOGRA
> profiles or the latest G7 GRACoL/SWOP profiles) and NOT using the out-
> dated "Custom CMYK" settings in Photoshop
Anyone have some insight on when Adobe will update their default
profiles in
the Creative Suite?
Thanks,
Gary Scott
S.F. Print Services
Landor Associates
> From: Marco Ugolini <email@hidden>
> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:34:14 -0700
> To: ColorSync <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: PS CMYK Conversions
>
> In a message dated 8/14/08 12:08 PM, Lorenzo Ridolfi wrote:
>
>> Device-link profiles are not supported directly in Photoshop.
>
> Esattamente, Lorenzo.
>
> And what a pity that is. I sure hope that our very capable friends at
Adobe
> will soon fix that glaring omission.
>
> Marco
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>
> landor.com
>
> This email sent to email@hidden
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:30:23 -0600
From: Andrew Rodney <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS CMYK Conversions
To: sfprintservices <email@hidden>
Cc: ColorSync <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
On Aug 14, 2008, at 2:50 PM, sfprintservices wrote:
> Anyone have some insight on when Adobe will update their default
> profiles in
> the Creative Suite?
IF I told you, they'd have to kill us both.
Andrew Rodney
http://www.digitaldog.net/
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:25:57 -0400
From: Roger Breton <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS CMYK Conversions
To: sfprintservices <email@hidden>, ColorSync
<email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C4CA3745.271A8%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
I just keep my fingers crossed for something to happen in CS4.
Otherwise, it's going to be another 18 months of waiting, before CS5 :(
> Anyone have some insight on when Adobe will update their default
profiles in
> the Creative Suite?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary Scott
Roger Breton
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:36:32 -0400
From: Roger Breton <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: HP dreamcolor screen, any opinions?
To: "Page, Andrew F (IPG - Palo Alto)" <email@hidden>, Robert
Rock <email@hidden>, 'Karl Owens' <email@hidden>,
ColorSync <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C4CA39C0.271B0%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
In case this got bounced, here's a reply from HP's Proofing Product
Manager
about the DreamColor monitor...
> The $1999 price on the display is a show deal here at SigGraph, which
just
> wrapped up. There is no limit on the number of units purchased though
so if
> you had friends that were at SigGraph you might want to check in with
them to
> see if they signed up.
>
> To the 10-bit question that's come up, you do need a 10-bit enabled
card and
> software. The "easiest" way to implement the 10-bit path for is
through 10
> bit, or floating point, textures in the OpenGL path. DisplayPort is
the
> recommended path to get 10 bit data into the card.
>
>
> -Andrew Page
> HP Proofing Product Manager
> email@hidden
Roger Breton
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 01:51:07 +0200
From: "edmund ronald" <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS CMYK Conversions
To: "Roger Breton" <email@hidden>
Cc: ColorSync <email@hidden>
Message-ID:
<email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Why can't you people read in your own default profiles ?
Edmund
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 1:25 AM, Roger Breton <email@hidden>
wrote:
> I just keep my fingers crossed for something to happen in CS4.
> Otherwise, it's going to be another 18 months of waiting, before CS5
:(
>
>> Anyone have some insight on when Adobe will update their default
profiles in
>> the Creative Suite?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Gary Scott
>
> Roger Breton
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>
>
> This email sent to email@hidden
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:53:53 -0400
From: "Robert Rock" <email@hidden>
Subject: RE: HP dreamcolor screen, any opinions?
To: "'Page, Andrew F (IPG - Palo Alto)'" <email@hidden>, "'Roger
Breton'" <email@hidden>, "'Karl Owens'"
<email@hidden>,
"'ColorSync'" <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <002901c8fe69$0503b790$0f0b26b0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Well then, if anyone was at the show and signed up, and has no desire to
take advantage of this option, PLEASE let me know. I'd like one.
Thanks,
Bob Rock
-----Original Message-----
From: Page, Andrew F (IPG - Palo Alto) [mailto:email@hidden]
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:20 PM
To: Roger Breton; Robert Rock; 'Karl Owens'; ColorSync
Subject: RE: HP dreamcolor screen, any opinions?
The $1999 price on the display is a show deal here at SigGraph, which
just
wrapped up. There is no limit on the number of units purchased though so
if
you had friends that were at SigGraph you might want to check in with
them
to see if they signed up.
To the 10-bit question that's come up, you do need a 10-bit enabled card
and
software. The "easiest" way to implement the 10-bit path for is through
10
bit, or floating point, textures in the OpenGL path. DisplayPort is the
recommended path to get 10 bit data into the card.
-Andrew Page
HP Proofing Product Manager
email@hidden
-----Original Message-----
From: colorsync-users-bounces+andrew_page=email@hidden
[mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+andrew_page=email@hidden] On
Behalf Of Roger Breton
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:22 AM
To: Robert Rock; 'Karl Owens'; ColorSync
Subject: Re: HP dreamcolor screen, any opinions?
> Under $2,000 ?? The cheapest I can find it online is about
$3,500-$3,600.
> Does anyone know how or where a similar deal might still be available?
I
> would snatch one up today if I could get it for under $2Grand.
>
> Thanks,
> Bob
Same here.
Roger Breton
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:05:47 -0400
From: Roger Breton <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS CMYK Conversions
To: edmund ronald <email@hidden>
Cc: ColorSync <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C4CA409B.271B8%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Of course we've long done that, Edmund!
The significance of Adobe releasing these profiles on their own is going
to
signify market acceptance for the masses. I think that's what me and a
bunch
of other list members are hoping for.
Roger
> Why can't you people read in your own default profiles ?
>
> Edmund
>
> On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 1:25 AM, Roger Breton <email@hidden>
wrote:
>> I just keep my fingers crossed for something to happen in CS4.
>> Otherwise, it's going to be another 18 months of waiting, before CS5
:(
>>
>>> Anyone have some insight on when Adobe will update their default
profiles in
>>> the Creative Suite?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Gary Scott
>>
>> Roger Breton
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:16:52 -0700
From: sfprintservices <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS CMYK Conversions
To: ColorSync <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C4CA1904.2E3C6%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Because at the enterprise level we have no idea where the file is going
to
end up. China, Arkansas, Mexico... It is all up the client to decide
where
and when the image will print, they may send it to 12 different printers
in
6 different countries.
The only way we can have some confidence the file will print similarly
is to
create the file and save with an assumed profile most printers, not
living
in the stone age, can assign to our files.
That usually means opening the file in some Adobe app and assigning one
of
the default color profiles that ships with the app.
If we start creating our own color setting defaults, how can we assume
end
users will be able to view, print and/or go to press and attain the same
color we presented to the client 6 months before.
Thanks,
Gary Scott
Landor Associates
> From: edmund ronald <email@hidden>
> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 01:51:07 +0200
> To: Roger Breton <email@hidden>
> Cc: Gary Scott <email@hidden>, ColorSync
> <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: PS CMYK Conversions
>
> Why can't you people read in your own default profiles ?
>
> Edmund
>
>>> Anyone have some insight on when Adobe will update their default
profiles in
>>> the Creative Suite?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Gary Scott
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 02:25:32 +0200
From: "edmund ronald" <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS CMYK Conversions
To: sfprintservices <email@hidden>
Cc: ColorSync <email@hidden>
Message-ID:
<email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Maybe you should explain this better: Why is assigning an Adobe
profile better than embedding one of your own ?
Does conversion between CMYK spaces have any meaning whatsoever ?
Edmund
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 2:16 AM, sfprintservices
<email@hidden> wrote:
> Because at the enterprise level we have no idea where the file is
going to
> end up. China, Arkansas, Mexico... It is all up the client to decide
where
> and when the image will print, they may send it to 12 different
printers in
> 6 different countries.
>
> The only way we can have some confidence the file will print similarly
is to
> create the file and save with an assumed profile most printers, not
living
> in the stone age, can assign to our files.
>
> That usually means opening the file in some Adobe app and assigning
one of
> the default color profiles that ships with the app.
>
> If we start creating our own color setting defaults, how can we assume
end
> users will be able to view, print and/or go to press and attain the
same
> color we presented to the client 6 months before.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary Scott
> Landor Associates
>
>
>
>> From: edmund ronald <email@hidden>
>> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 01:51:07 +0200
>> To: Roger Breton <email@hidden>
>> Cc: Gary Scott <email@hidden>, ColorSync
>> <email@hidden>
>> Subject: Re: PS CMYK Conversions
>>
>> Why can't you people read in your own default profiles ?
>>
>> Edmund
>>
>>>> Anyone have some insight on when Adobe will update their default
profiles in
>>>> the Creative Suite?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Gary Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>
>
> This email sent to email@hidden
>
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:54:01 -0400
From: J Richter <email@hidden>
Subject: HP dreamcolor screen, any opinions?
To: email@hidden
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
When ever it comes into inventory in Canada, (and my suppliers are not
showing any quantity on hand) you should expect your prices to be around
$3500 CAD, give or take, depending on the margins the dealer sets, price
before any taxes. My info has it as a 3-year parts and labor warranty
item for those who want to know.
Cheers
Jurgen
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:53:05 -0700
From: Matt Beals <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: HP dreamcolor screen, any opinions?
To: ColorSync <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Or two....
But if there is enough demand from a group like this list generally
vendors will extend the offer.
Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:email@hidden
Come visit me at:
http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://forums.mattbeals.com
Friends don't let friends write HTML email
Robert Rock wrote:
| Well then, if anyone was at the show and signed up, and has no desire
to
| take advantage of this option, PLEASE let me know. I'd like one.
|
| Thanks,
| Bob Rock
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: Page, Andrew F (IPG - Palo Alto) [mailto:email@hidden]
| Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:20 PM
| To: Roger Breton; Robert Rock; 'Karl Owens'; ColorSync
| Subject: RE: HP dreamcolor screen, any opinions?
|
| The $1999 price on the display is a show deal here at SigGraph, which
just
| wrapped up. There is no limit on the number of units purchased though
so if
| you had friends that were at SigGraph you might want to check in with
them
| to see if they signed up.
|
| To the 10-bit question that's come up, you do need a 10-bit enabled
card and
| software. The "easiest" way to implement the 10-bit path for is
through 10
| bit, or floating point, textures in the OpenGL path. DisplayPort is
the
| recommended path to get 10 bit data into the card.
|
|
| -Andrew Page
| HP Proofing Product Manager
| email@hidden
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: colorsync-users-bounces+andrew_page=email@hidden
| [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+andrew_page=email@hidden] On
| Behalf Of Roger Breton
| Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:22 AM
| To: Robert Rock; 'Karl Owens'; ColorSync
| Subject: Re: HP dreamcolor screen, any opinions?
|
|> Under $2,000 ?? The cheapest I can find it online is about
$3,500-$3,600.
|> Does anyone know how or where a similar deal might still be
available? I
|> would snatch one up today if I could get it for under $2Grand.
|>
|> Thanks,
|> Bob
|
| Same here.
|
| Roger Breton
|
|
| _______________________________________________
| Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
| Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
| Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
|
|
| This email sent to email@hidden
|
| _______________________________________________
| Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
| Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
| Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
|
|
| This email sent to email@hidden
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------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:18:22 -0700
From: sfprintservices <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS CMYK Conversions
To: ColorSync <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C4CA357E.2E3CE%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi,
Edmund, you are right, I do need to explain this better. Thanks for the
input.
I apologize in advance for the long winded response.
Of course embedding a profile would create fewer variables for the end
user.
There are at least 2 problems with embedding a profile.
1. Which profile do we embed for cmyk work USWebCoatedSWOP v2,
WebCoatedSWOP2006Grade3, GRACoL2006_Coated1v2, or some variation of
FOGRA?
We never know what type of output will be used; digital, web offset,
sheetfed, large format inkjet...
2. There are 100+ designers in multiple studios just in the US, there
are
several more studios overseas.
90% of these designers feel if they are being billed out at $100 - $300
per
hour they do not have time to worry about production details (like if
their
wonderful design can be reproduced in a variety of environments). They
want
a seamless workflow that does not distract them from their creativity or
delay their deadlines.
Please no flaming here, I have heard all of the reasons why we should be
better controlled but, as long as the studios are being profitable they
will
not change.
The way we have gotten around having multiple color profiles used in the
same design (AICS defaults to Emulate Adobe Illustrator 6.)is that we
setup
common color settings for the Creative Suite. Basically North America
Prepress 2, and then push those settings to all the users when we
remotely
install their apps.
All users should now be using the same color settings. They do not have
to
think about embedding a profile or even what color profile they are
using.
They soft proof and print without converting to any other profile.
When they save their files the color profiles are assumed. When they
hand
the files off to other designers here or at other studios they are
seeing
the same color.
When they print their first and second level "proofs" they are seeing
the
same color.
Since SWOP v2 and Adobe 1998 are the defaults in North America, we can
be
fairly confident the images and designs will not be too far out of gamut
of
too most output devices.
When they hand off the files to the end user, they can usually reproduce
our
color without trying too hard to figure out what profile we used to
create
the file.
Would we like to give users an expanded color space like
GRACoL2006_Coated1v2 to work in? Sure, and as soon as Adobe gives us
color
settings using that profile in their apps we will use them.
This is our default workflow, and if an end user gives us their press or
proofer profiles we can adjust the workflow for that particular client.
Any thoughts on changes to this way of doing things are welcome.
Thanks,
Gary Scott
Landor Associates
> From: edmund ronald <email@hidden>
> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 02:25:32 +0200
> To: Gary Scott <email@hidden>
> Cc: ColorSync <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: PS CMYK Conversions
>
> Maybe you should explain this better: Why is assigning an Adobe
> profile better than embedding one of your own ?
> Does conversion between CMYK spaces have any meaning whatsoever ?
>
> Edmund
------------------------------
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Colorsync-users mailing list
email@hidden
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users
End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 5, Issue 268
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