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Re: "Non-linear"?
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Re: "Non-linear"?


  • Subject: Re: "Non-linear"?
  • From: Mo <email@hidden>
  • Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:06:20 -0700



You always use the *master* image, edit it to make it look the best it can,
then convert it to this or that end use (print, web, what have you). Each
final application makes the best use possible of the original file's colors
and detail.

With all do respect, this is not how the actual World functions. I understand how the workflow is sold.


You are speaking from once again and ideological best case, best practice workflow. The applications are not designed nor geared towards multiple users in many areas of graphics. Adobe products are developed for the individual idiotology so when that individual passes their work onto another user , things break.



Believe me, I understand enough to ask you this: isn't it *your* job to take
the image and make it into what the client wants it to be, to the extent
that it's reasonable and feasible? Why would it be important that the client
care about file management, etc.?

Why yes production people are asked to do many unrealistic things to images all the time because of the levels of understanding of individuals. Some requests are unrealistic, but there are companies such as Apple computer which spends at times, 10K on one image that has about 25 to 30 rounds of color adjustments and retouching edits - as one example. So yes, there are sales people that promise the sky and there are customers that believe the sales peoples sky and therefore, it is required that a service company be able to deliver that request. So, in an idealistic World that you have been sold, going back to a master file that does not exist anymore for whatever reason, is not the actual World that I work in - nor the majority of other users.


Are you required to know about car mechanics when you take your car to the
shop for repair, or do you just want the car to work when you pick it up
later, for a reasonable price?

Do you believe in having many people work on your car and sometimes more then one person at one time? Do you also believe in having your car worked on by many shops at one time? Do you believe in having your car receive Toyota parts when you have a Ford? Well that is how the actual graphics World functions. Many people, many parts, at many times all over the place. Again, the graphics software is not designed to handle multiple users in multiple situations. Therefore, things break often including your assumption that a MASTER file shall be available.



That's certainly not what I'm asking of "all users". *We* in the imaging
professions must know what we are doing, but we're certainly not here to
save the world from itself. We're here to do our work the best way we are
able to. What we can't control we must either avoid, or handle in some way
if we can't avoid it.

No. Everyone is now a professional it's just that some professional are better then others. Saving the World should be everyones priority. To make the software better is what is required by all professionals. What you can't control, I CAN'T AVOID and that is the problem. Burying you head in the sand is no excuse for a job well done. I see you are still an old school thinker.



"Selfish"? Who is "selfish"? We're in business: *everyone* must be somewhat
"selfish" to stay in business! What's that got to do with this?


"Art"? Most of the time customers want images that aid them in selling more
goods. "Art" is seldom the point.

Art is in the artist conceptions that tries to come to fruition. Most suck at it and the software does no help to ascertain that goal. But boy can we play to no end with ourselves. You call that good? I sure don't. I call that a waste of time and yes I make a very good living at wasting time with other's so called art. I am a proponent for change for the betterment of all. I'm actually offering advice on how things should change and to eliminate position to some extent. What have you thought of about making things better in the graphics world?


Hmm¿


People need a road map to success and the current implementation of color
management has had little success in trying to accomplish better art and
educating users.

Yes, here is your old argument again, Mike, the one from a while back over
the "failure of color management". I remember now.

Yes, The science works, the implementation is Broken. Listen to me very carefully. It is BROKEN~!



I'm sorry that you're having such a hard time. Maybe it's time to look into
a line of business that causes you less stress... <g>

I am numb to stress. You build up a tolerance to stupidity and deal with it as best you can. You educate yourself and others to try and reduce the poundings your receive and work towards a better life for you and your customer, but most continue to be dumb. Therefore, smarter software is needed to assist the individuals in better art.


"Old school thinking"? How condescending of you to lump the participants in
"this forum" (which includes some of the best people around in imaging these
days) as "old school" and "appalling".

It's not meant to be condescending and you are taking it the wrong way. This is a WAKE UP CALL for change because what we have right now only works in a closed loop system of individuals. Yes there are all kinds of very bright people on these forums and are all specialist in what they do. You listen to them and evaluate what they have to teach you. Are you listening or just being argumentative?


What does *that* mean? Are you the proponent of a "new school of thought"?
If so, your presentation is in need of a good editor if you wish to convince
others of anything in particular.

OK, are you applying for the job? It does not pay much up front to be honest.


You may want to stop and take a breath, reassess what you are doing and
thinking, formulate clear ideas and questions that other people are actually
able to understand -- and then you just might start receiving some replies
and answers, at long last, besides viewing your work in a new light.



Questions? The only questions I have for anyone is why you think that people shall learn all this color stuff and what delusional approach to reality are you living in?

Anyway, I think I best leave this thread behind me, given how it seems both
to have run aground and to make not much sense for others besides yourself.

Yes, run away from the Worlds problems is a fine solution and a typical one because it's easy to do. Go back to discussing color management "theory" and how great it is within the confines of a closed mind.


I have tried to add to the discussion, and I hope to have been of some help,
but I will move on now.




Yes you have been helpful and I thank you for doing so. Have a good day sir and enjoy your color experiences well.


mo


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 >Re: "Non-linear"? (From: Marco Ugolini <email@hidden>)

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