Re: FOGRA52 & i1Profiler [subject corrected]
Re: FOGRA52 & i1Profiler [subject corrected]
- Subject: Re: FOGRA52 & i1Profiler [subject corrected]
- From: Andreas Kraushaar <email@hidden>
- Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:07:31 +0200
> Am 10.09.2017 um 15:55 schrieb Claas Bickeböller <email@hidden>:
>
> Andy,
>
>
>>
>> b) the colour accuracy is given perfectly. So take a good given CMYK PDF and
>> a corresponding print on an uncoated stock. If you proof the data with F52
>> and a mechanical rough proofing substrate you will get a visual match that
>> was never available in the industry before (for this kind of stock).
>
> agree.
>
>>
>> c) from separation point of view here the bluish white point (and the
>> corresponding grey balance) introduces some challenges for ICC workflows.
>> This is based on the used CIEXYZ white point scaling, which moves all colour
>> to the new white point and takes all colour with it (as defined per the
>> pertinent ratio).
>
> if using the relative colorimetric intent.
>
>> Here the prediction is too bluish compared to what people would prefer to
>> have seen neutral on the press (a little more yellow). So the („here not
>> very visual plausible") computed CIEXYZ values are met perfectly with the
>> used profiles - but this corresponds to a not perfect separation. See the
>> example provided from Juergen Seitz.
>> However we see this not for 80% of the use cases but for some high quality
>> demanding customers that now need to optimise their colour server color
>> transforms. This is something you can expect from distinguished prepress
>> house.
>> You cannot solve this problem with V2/V4 compliant ICC profiles!
>
> You are referring to the relative colorimetric intent only I think.
>
> You can easily solve this using the perceptual and saturation table which you
> can fill with whatever you like. It is about the gamut mapping only and has
> nothing to do with how you encode it.
> So please don’t blame the ICC format. If you want to blame s.o. or sth. blame
> bad perceptual mappings which brought people to using rel.col. instead of
> perceptual as a standard RI.
> I can create ICC profiles which give you consistent image appearance for
> different printing conditions with different white points and different gamut
> sizes and shapes.
> Of course I'm not using ICC relative colorimetric rendering then but this
> mapping is encoded inside the perceptual table.
good remark, only BtoA1 (colorimetrical table)!
The perceptual table (BtoA0) can encode the grey balance differently (e.g. not
using the white point ration throughout the colour space).
regards
Andy
Neu im Programm - Farbmanagement für den Multicolor-Druck am 13.10.2017
https://www.fogra.org/MultiColor/
—————————————————————————
Dr.-Ing. Andreas Kraushaar
Abt. Vorstufentechnik
Fogra
Forschungsinstitut für Medientechnologien e.V.
Einsteinring 1a
85609 Aschheim b. München
Telefon: +49 89. 431 82 - 335
Telefax: +49 89. 431 82 - 100
E-mail: email@hidden
Internet: www.fogra.org
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>
> regards
>
> Claas
>
>
>>
>> regards
>> Andy Kraushaar
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Register for the Fogra colour management symposium 2018 !
>> Our quality, neutrality
>> ------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Dr.-Ing. Andreas Kraushaar
>> Dept. Prepress
>>
>> Forschungsinstitut für Medientechnologien e.V.
>> Fogra Research Institute for Media Technologies
>> Einsteinring 1a
>> 85609 Aschheim near Munich
>>
>> Telefon: +49 89. 431 82 - 335
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>>
>>> Am 09.09.2017 um 18:59 schrieb Graeme Gill <email@hidden>:
>>>
>>> Martin Orpen wrote:
>>>
>>>> The profiles from the 52 data aren’t useable.
>>>
>>> Seems to me then, that the data isn't usable - the profile merely
>>> represents the data. Either that or something about how you are
>>> trying to use the data-set/profile is out of sync with what it is
>>> intended for.
>>>
>>> Graeme Gill.
>>>
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