Re: Fogra 51 and 52
Re: Fogra 51 and 52
- Subject: Re: Fogra 51 and 52
- From: Refik Telhan via colorsync-users <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 02:40:10 +0300
- Thread-topic: Fogra 51 and 52
Hi Martin,
The problem actually appears in the color conversion phase. Given that you use
a proofing substrate that matches the print substrate in terms of color and OBA
class, the proof and the print matches. But rich blacks are
coldish/bluish/purplish by seperation. And the loss of yellow is not limited to
the gray axis, all colors that should contain high amounts of yellow lose some
of it. In short, the separation itself is now colder than what it used to be
under FOGRA39/47. The CMYK "ink-film" is no longer "neutral". CMY grays are no
longer gray but definitely purple.
And this problem is not limited to the European side of the Atlantic. Just see
the neutral rendering curve of "GRACoL2013UNC_CRPC3.icc" for perceptual
rendering intent.
Best regards,
Refik
--------------------------------------------------------
Refik Telhan, EE B.Sc.
Light and Color Management Consultancy
Aydogdu Sokak 12A, Tarabya Mahallesi
Sariyer, 34457, Istanbul, Turkey
Mobile: + (90) (532) 426 21 87
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On 10.06.2019 17:52, "colorsync-users on behalf of Martin Orpen via
colorsync-users" <colorsync-users-bounces+rtelhan=email@hidden on
behalf of email@hidden> wrote:
> On 10 Jun 2019, at 14:45, Roger Breton via colorsync-users
<email@hidden> wrote:
>
> Yet, I gather that the data was extensively tested "visually" between
participating proofing vendors and printers, and that "everyone" was satisfied
with the results. (I got the points you raised on your reply on the ECI List
and will go through them)
I’m not happy with the results.
And I’m not happy with the changes that this has somehow caused to the
older proofing standards like 39 and 47.
It is now impossible to accurately proof anything composed predominantly of
black ink.
Black is now blue-shifted on proof.
CMYK black and white images are a chilly blue black now — even in Fogra 39
— and look nothing like the printed result.
We should have a competition to see how blue patch A18 from a Fogra 39
media wedge can be before it fails verification.
I reckon you can hit b -4 and still get a pass on a Fogra proof.
--
Martin Orpen
Idea Digital Imaging Ltd _______________________________________________
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