RE: ISO-3664:2009 illumination
RE: ISO-3664:2009 illumination
- Subject: RE: ISO-3664:2009 illumination
- From: Roger Breton via colorsync-users <email@hidden>
- Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 23:33:12 -0400
Claas,
Is the 5nm illuminance "linearly" interpolated from the detector 10nm data? I
was always on the impression that the FD-7 offered "true" 5nm data in spectral
irradiance mode.
(I need to brush up on this concept of FWHM...)
MfG / Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: colorsync-users
<colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=email@hidden> On Behalf Of Claas
Bickeböller via colorsync-users
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 3:15 AM
To: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: ISO-3664:2009 illumination
Roger,
thanks for mentioning the Konica Minolta FD-7 (it’s quite some time since
Konica and Minolta merged ;-) ).
Indeed it reports illuminance data in 5nm steps.
The FW@HM („optical resolution“) is appr. 10nm (it’s a little less that’s why
we state „appr. 10nm“).
Still you get a very very good idea if a viewing cabinet is out of tolerance or
not.
As to the measurement range: It is true that ISO 3664 demands 300nm - 730nm.
But, the real life fluorescent tube based D50 simulators do not emit any energy
below 340nm with a UV peak at 365nm.
From 365nm to 340nm it goes straight down to 0.
Thus in practice the standard is too demanding.
Also, yes, the peak excitation wavelength of stilbene based OBAs is around
365nm.
Thus with your FD-7 you get the information you need to make a judgment that is
good enough in practice.
An instrument starting at 380nm wouldn’t give you any relevant information.
To fulfill the ISO 3664 requirements completely you needed to look at something
like an Instrument Systems CAS 140.
Hope that answers your questions.
Cheers
Claas
Claas Bickeböller
Product Manager Graphic Arts
Konica Minolta Sensing Europe B.V.
Swiss Branch Dietikon
Riedstrasse 6
CH - 8953 Dietikon
Phone: +41 43 322 98 04
Mobile: +41 79 861 71 77
Fax: +41 43 322 98 09
E-mail: email@hidden
<mailto:email@hidden>
Website:http://www.konicaminolta.eu <http://www.konicaminolta.eu/>
> Am 17.06.2019 um 00:13 schrieb Roger Breton via colorsync-users
> <email@hidden>:
>
> Hi Refik,
>
> Client-X is the "Blue" curve?
>
> I have access to two "lab grade" devices, Minolta FD-7 which, in spectral
> irradiance mode, captures 5nm data (see Excel sheet), and a Gamma Scientific
> GS-1150 which captures 1nm data down to 360nm.
> Sadly, I cannot capture below 360nm range ☹
>
> I have an old OceanOptics USB4000 spectrometer, here, which can go down to
> 300nm BUT I don't have a UV calibrated lamp to reliably measure down to
> 300nm...
>
> I read that stilbene, one of the more popular whitening agent, is mostly
> sensitive in the 360 to 400 nm range?
>
> I agree that soon, due to change in LED lighting, the whole OB issue is going
> to "transform" into either obsolescence or some new kind of "monster"? How is
> the paper industry, who invested so much over the years to take advantage of
> optical brighteners in paper manufacturing, going to "influence" the
> development of new standards of lighting?
>
> Best / Roger
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Refik Telhan <email@hidden>
> Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2019 5:59 PM
> To: ''colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List' <email@hidden>
> Cc: email@hidden
> Subject: Re: ISO-3664:2009 illumination
>
> Dear Roger,
>
> I should have said spectral power distribution "curve" not "data". I have
> superimposed the Client X curve to this curve.
>
> Below is the the image:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jzwoj9hpw4ka9m8/CIE-and-new-and-old-graphiclite-ISO-3664+ClientX.jpg?dl=0
>
> This image displays one major problem with regard to ISO 3664:2009. You need
> to have lab-grade measuring devices for checking the light sources. The
> standard requires 5 nm resolution for the measurement data. Typical devices
> can only do 10 nm. MI(UV) requires that the measurement range should start
> from 300 nm. And the typical devices start from 360/380 nm. Hence, widely
> available solutions can only give approximate results with regard to
> compliancy to ISO 3664-2009.
>
> This whole OBA-induced complexity is proving to be too much for the printing
> industry. Artificial lighting is fast losing its UV component and soon
> OBA-related issues will become much less important if not irrelevant.
>
> Best,
>
> Refik
>
>
> On 16.06.2019 15:20, "email@hidden" <email@hidden> wrote:
>
> Thank you, Refik!
> I knew this information was "somewhere"...
> So the new code is the letter "E" -- sounds like Sesame Street, "Today,
> we'll learn the letter "E", as in "Elephant", ha! ha! ha! Sorry, I could not
> resist 😉
>
> I could not find the spectral power distribution data, you said was on the
> page?
>
> Thanks / Roger
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Refik Telhan <email@hidden>
> Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2019 6:03 AM
> To: ''colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List'
> <email@hidden>
> Cc: email@hidden
> Subject: Re: ISO-3664:2009 illumination
>
> Hi Roger,
>
> The lamp code indicates that it is an old one. Below is the link to the
> GTI web page explaining the differences between the old and the new lamps:
>
> https://www.gtilite.com/2011/01/whats-new-in-the-iso-3664-standard/
>
> Below image from that page shows the new lamp codes should end with an E,
> instead of an X.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/6euebxuxph0uelc/GTI_Lamp_Codes.jpg?dl=0
>
> The same page also contains the spectral power distributions of the old
> and the new lamps.
>
> New generation Just Normlicht lamps are clearly marked.
>
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/77eyu0wbcd9i6ux/JUST-daylight-5000-proGraphic-ISO.jpg?dl=0
>
> Best,
>
> Refik Telhan
> Light and Color Management Consultancy
>
>
> On 15.06.2019 22:27, "colorsync-users on behalf of Roger Breton via
> colorsync-users" <colorsync-users-bounces+rtelhan=email@hidden
> on behalf of email@hidden> wrote:
>
> I suspect this "old" GTI lamp was manufactured a long time ago.
>
>
>
> https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqkLRy3q1Y_l3gK8VkWg
>
>
>
> I gather there is a code that identifies lamps that meet the new
> specification.
>
> Does anyone know what code I should be looking for?
>
>
>
> One thing, though.
>
>
>
> I found this lamp installed in an old GretagMacbeth overhead
> luminaires, at
> a client, yesterday.
>
> See the data here, in Excel (measured with Minolta FD-7) :
>
>
>
> https://1drv.ms/x/s!AkD78CVR1NBqkLRz_XP0GZyvIEZh7w
>
>
>
> The thing is, according to ISO-3664:2009, the light produced by these
> lamps
> "shall" (or "should") have energy in the UV part of the spectrum. I'm
> not
> sure they specify down to 360nm but that's typically where the optical
> brighteners components in the paper are excited from, according to my
> humble
> information. If the lamp does not produce any energy in that part of
> the
> spectrum, hence, the appearance of the proof "will be compromised". (I
> hope
> TC130 is starting to work on the new type of LED illumination which
> will
> gradually replace Mercury-based fluorescent tubes, because it's going
> to
> happen sooner than later.).
>
>
>
> Just curious, for those who have long measured the "new" 2009 lamps,
> would
> you have some kind of data to share? So that I can compare? GTI lights,
> preferably.
>
>
>
> Thank you / Roger Breton
>
> www.graxx.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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