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Re: Presets etc.
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Re: Presets etc.


  • Subject: Re: Presets etc.
  • From: Marc Poirier <email@hidden>
  • Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:22:17 -0400 (EDT)

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, Michael Kleps [reFX] wrote:

> >> thanks for clarifiying this. Unfortunatly I have to support VST and AU
> >> and for simplicity I don't want to do any major changes to either
> >> implementation. In fact, I have not modified a single line of code in
> >> the VST version to make the AU version work. I will hence lie to the
> >> host and tell him that I have no factory presets at all. Then the user
> >> is forced to use my internal preset-management that is a LOT more
> >> flexible (IMHO) then the AU one (presets can be changed and organized
> >> in banks). VST handles presets like a RAM bank, so the user, not the
> >> host, can decide what to do with it.
> >
> >
> > ???
> > Most users who I have dealt with prefer the AU approach to presets and
> > find the VST "programs" concept to be confusing and lead to undesired
> > behavior. But I really don't see how one case the user decides what
> > happens and the other the host decides, that's a weird take on it...
>
> Then you have different customers, but this could be from the different
> platforms we work for. Most of my customers are PC users which use VST
> and thus they are used to the VST behaviour.

I've done VST Windows stuff since many years ago, too...

> I find the AU behaviour
> very confusing and limiting. I have several AU beta-testers that
> complained that their preset is always overwriting the first factory
> preset

Buggy AU? That's certainly not what any AU should be doing, that's the
crummy behavior with VST.

> and that when the load another soundbank (through the supplied
> internal load functions) that the preset list in logic is not updated
> to reflect this. Seems that even my Mac AU customers are used to the
> VST behaviour.

Except that, as you've already learned, that's also not what any AU should
be doing. You don't load in new factory presets. A legitimate solution
has already been recommended: putting files in Library/Audio/Presets/etc.

> Even hardware synthesizers have a RAM bank and not just
> one slot. And when you do sysex dumps you always have the choice to
> dump only the current preset or the entire bank.

Angus already gave a perfect response about the backwardsness of
immitating MIDI hardware with software, to which I won't add anything...

> Anyway, I was lacking this information and was thus making false
> assumptions. I will now lie to the host, provide my own load/save
> functions (for presets AND banks, all in good old compatible FXP/FXB
> format)

??? Compatible with what? Itself? It's VST-proprietary, as incompatible
as anything else can get.

> and treat a "state" as a complete bank, so the user can use
> program-changes to switch between several of HIS presets within one
> bank. This is called "total recall" (saving *everything* related to the
> plugin in the song) and this total recall functionality is NOT included
> in AUl.

Yeah cuz it sucks (who needs their song document data bloated 128x or
however many "programs" there are in a given plugin's "bank" when they're
usually only using 1 and there are other fine methods of state
management available that aren't as backwards?) and cuz you provide banks
that are immediately accessible (thanks to the AU-standard location) which
can be modified using preset files in standard location. But instead
you'd rather knowingly not use a good solution and knowingly keep things
confusing by misimplementing the AU API, and then complaining about how
the AU API is confusing when it's misimplemented?

Marc
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References: 
 >Re: Presets etc. (From: "Michael Kleps [reFX]" <email@hidden>)

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