• Open Menu Close Menu
  • Apple
  • Shopping Bag
  • Apple
  • Mac
  • iPad
  • iPhone
  • Watch
  • TV
  • Music
  • Support
  • Search apple.com
  • Shopping Bag

Lists

Open Menu Close Menu
  • Terms and Conditions
  • Lists hosted on this site
  • Email the Postmaster
  • Tips for posting to public mailing lists
Re: Test report MBP built-in audio device
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: Test report MBP built-in audio device


  • Subject: Re: Test report MBP built-in audio device
  • From: "Mikael Hakman" <email@hidden>
  • Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:52:57 +0200
  • Organization: Datakonsulten AB

On Wednesday, August 27, 2008 3:54 PM, James Chandler Jr wrote:

From: "Mikael Hakman" <email@hidden>

I'm not physically, electronically or even logically switching the device on. The device is on for a long period of time and it is feed by a continuous signal. The signal consists of silence (zeros) up to a certain time. At that time the signal becomes pure sine wave with phase 0 (i.e. first sine sample is sin(0), next is sin(dt) etc). I continuously record output from the device and I know the exact delay between my output into device and device's output into my program. Therefore I know which of recorded samples that corresponds to the first sine wave sample. I start my analysis from that sample. When I say that I know the exact delay I mean the exact number of samples, which of course vary a little between the runs but is measured at the very beginning of each run, earlier (before silence and sine wave) in the test signal so to speak.

The reason I'm using such a test signal is that it is a crude simulation of what happens when a musical instrument is played. Because proper reproduction of signal during instrument's attack time (first few milliseconds after you hit a string, start blowing etc) has been shown to be the second most important factor after harmonic content to our perception of timbre, I decided to measure distortion in experiments that are close to this musical reality. Perhaps such experiments could explain why 2 audio devices having the same or very close specs, may sound so differently, one sounds right, the other doesn't.

I know very little about it, but if you for instance duplicate this experiment, feeding your signal (silent head + sudden onset sine wave)-- If you process your test signal thru a simple IIR digital HiPass DC Blocker filter--


Visually examine the output, and the signal onset will not look like a clean sine wave for quite awhile after the signal onset, until the DC Blocker settles.

You can see the same thing with about any kind of filtering, including the low-pass anti-alias filtering on ADC inputs and DAC outputs (though those filters settle quicker than a DC Blocker). A sudden onset interacts strongly with the impulse response of the filter.

Dunno what an FFT of that first sudden-onset 'odd-looking' DC Blocker sine cycle would show. A short un-windowed FFT on that first wave cycle might make you think it indicates distortion. Dunno. Never tried it.

But such linear filters usually don't make harmonic distortion, only 'time distortion' contributed by the impulse response.

Maybe you are looking at some other artifact, and have a way of ignoring linear filter settling artifacts?

Audio DAC outputs and ADC inputs, will almost invariably have high-pass, DC Blocking characteristic. A short-term harmonic distortion test should have some way of ignoring the time-distortion of such filters' impulse responses.

That is one advantage of a windowed steady-state test-- In that case any linear impulse responses in the system have presumably settled, and so they will not confuse the distortion measurement?

Hello James,

My aim is to measure how far from or close to an ideal system, the actual system is. Therefore I cannot ignore all those distortions you propose to ignore because it is the magnitude of these very distortions that make one system better (closer to ideal) than another.

Without here going into the math of convolutions and transfer functions, a system under investigation produces an output signal (response) given an input signal. Any change to the original input, that isn't constant time shift, isn't constant attenuation, and isn't adding constant offset, is by the very definition a distortion. This includes distortion produced by your IIR digital HiPass DC Blocker filter, and LowPass, BandPass, and StopBand filters and of course FIR dunno.

There are many components in a system that contribute to this distortion. Imperfections in DAC/ADC algorithms, various filter effects (whether filters are inherent to DAC/ADC construction or not), output/input circuitry, variation of power or reference voltages, temperature changes, other effects in semiconductors etc.

While knowledge about reasons why such distortion appear and what components that contribute and in what proportions to the total distortion may be interesting to system's vendor, it is not required when you want to compare systems and assess relative quality of audio that is (re)produced.

Both research and experience shows that steady-state distortion measurements cannot explain some by humans perceived differences in audio quality. To put it simply, given 2 devices with the same or very similar specifications, one may sound right while the other not. This ambiguity has been observed both at consumer, prosumer, audiophile, and studio levels.

It has also been shown that proper reproduction of signal during attack phase of an instrument's voice is second most important factor in human perception of timbre (first being harmonic content). Duration of this attack phase vary with instrument. For most instruments it is in a range of few milliseconds. Therefore I'm studying distortion produced by a system during this period of time. This cannot be done using steady-state measurements because during attack time there is no steady-state yet (otherwise it wouldn't be attack anymore).

I hope this answers your questions.

Regards/Mikael

_______________________________________________
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Coreaudio-api mailing list      (email@hidden)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
This email sent to email@hidden


  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: Test report MBP built-in audio device
      • From: Brian Willoughby <email@hidden>
References: 
 >Re: Test report MBP built-in audio device (From: Brian Davies <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Test report MBP built-in audio device (From: "Mikael Hakman" <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Test report MBP built-in audio device (From: "James Chandler Jr" <email@hidden>)

  • Prev by Date: Re: AudioQueue Crossfading does not work
  • Next by Date: Re: Test report MBP built-in audio device
  • Previous by thread: Re: Test report MBP built-in audio device
  • Next by thread: Re: Test report MBP built-in audio device
  • Index(es):
    • Date
    • Thread