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Re: [APPL:DarwinDev] Re: rand() and srand() broken?
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Re: [APPL:DarwinDev] Re: rand() and srand() broken?


  • Subject: Re: [APPL:DarwinDev] Re: rand() and srand() broken?
  • From: "Jay A. Kreibich" <email@hidden>
  • Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:11:21 -0600

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 03:18:17PM -0500, Clark Cox scratched on the wall:
> On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Derek Gaston <email@hidden> wrote:

> > Indeed... note that this wasn't about passing the _same_ value...
> > it was about passing similar values to srand... like singularly
> > increasing integers...

> I was responding specifically to:
>
> "Are you (and everyone else that replied) trying to tell me that the
> first number out of rand() (after reseeding) should always be the
> predictable?"

  You're misinterpreting the term "predictable."  The OP states, in the
  same post you are quoting from, that they know the first number out
  is always the same for a given seed.  In fact, their application design
  depends on it.  This quote doesn't say, "for a specific seed value."

  Their point was that if you know the first number out for a given
  seed, you can predict-- with a fairly high degree of accuracy-- what
  the first number out will be for a very similar (numerically close)
  seeds.  In other words, there is a highly structured relation between
  the seed value and the first value out, making it easy to accurately
  estimate-- i.e. predict-- what the first value out will be for seed
  values we haven't tested yet.

  To put it yet another way, if you know the first value from srand(N)
  and srand(N+2), you can make a good prediction of the first value
  from srand(N+1) for any value of N.  This makes the first value out
  predictable, not in terms of a specific N, but as a general property
  of the PRNG.

  That's clearly a poor property for a PRNG, just as it would be for a
  hash.

   -j

--
Jay A. Kreibich < J A Y  @  K R E I B I.C H >

"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs.  We have
 a protractor."   "I'll go home and see if I can scrounge up a ruler
 and a piece of string."  --from Anathem by Neal Stephenson
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References: 
 >rand() and srand() broken? (From: Derek Gaston <email@hidden>)
 >Re: rand() and srand() broken? (From: Jason Foreman <email@hidden>)
 >Re: rand() and srand() broken? (From: Derek Gaston <email@hidden>)
 >Re: rand() and srand() broken? (From: Clark Cox <email@hidden>)
 >Re: rand() and srand() broken? (From: Derek Gaston <email@hidden>)
 >Re: rand() and srand() broken? (From: Clark Cox <email@hidden>)

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