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Re: Is WO doomed?
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Re: Is WO doomed?


  • Subject: Re: Is WO doomed?
  • From: "Jonathan Fleming" <email@hidden>
  • Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 03:38:41 +0100

From: Numair Faraz <email@hidden>
To: jim <email@hidden>
CC: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Is WO doomed?
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:13:07 -0700

Every year, people sit around and wonder to themselves, "will WebObjects die? Will something come along and do things better?"

Nothing does, people waste time that they could have saved by using WebObjects (and actually learning it *well*, which is extremely hard to do), and the world goes on producing mediocre web software projects which will eventually need to be scrapped and replaced by projects built with one of two things - either something that is a blatant ripoff of WebObjects, or WebObjects itself.

Do what you want. I am sure there are lots of people using WebObjects who'd actually rather that others never figured out how to use it, because that would afford them a competitive advantage. WebObjects is what happens when you put a lot of really smart, creative people in one place, have them think about the question that is "we have cgi-scripts and the like, but what is the future of the web", and give them enough resources to create an end product with the answer to this question. I dare you to find any other web application server technology created in such an environment.

In order to become a good WebObjects developer, you don't have to simply be a good programmer - you have to be extremely smart, open-minded, and patient; the state of our economy (at least in the US) is a testament to the fact that there are very few such individuals out there, even fewer who know how to program, and even fewer given the permission to do what they want. So perhaps you are right.

If anything is certain, it's that Apple appears to have given up on trying to explain to others why they need WebObjects. They know they have the first and best web application server in the world, they know it affords a competitive advantage, and they don't care if you notice. If they had to hold your hand while teaching you how to use WebObjects, you wouldn't be someone who'd truly understand it anyway. Apple's internal initiatives alone are reason for them to keep maintaining the product; I would almost say that external adoption is simply a nice perk.

Sorry for the irritation. I just know this - I've been exposed to the absolute smartest, most logical people working on web applications via WebObjects. They could have made great architects (the real ones, not the fake software title), but for some reason they decided to pick up software. Even if Apple dropped support of the product TODAY, these are people who would figure out how to make it work. Because good software is like a well-built building - you don't throw it away, you renovate.

And really, that's all that matters.

-numair

Well said I like that.
Me, I'm no magical software programmer, more a mere humbled developer (if I can call myself that - I'm still in the copying stage), but I wouldn't choose any other program to achieve the humble little programs I've created through webObjects. fact is, when I was doing more web designing than developing, I search about good and plenty before I came across Apple's web Objects and yet I was a Mac man from the start - never knew Apple had this secret weapon. When I understood what it could do it was like all my IT dreams come true practically. And as hard as it is to master this kit, master it I wish to.
If webObjects was shelved today, myself, along with plenty of others would be fervant die hard fans who just wouldn't let it die... how can it, it's ever evolving, moving with the times and cross referencing with languages and OS platforms.


Jonathan ;^)
Remember this: APPLE IS ABOUT INNOVATION NOT DECIMATION



On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 05:17 PM, jim wrote:

I understand the replies so far, but nothing encourages confidence.

Jim

On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 06:36 PM, Art Isbell wrote:

On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 12:04  PM, jim wrote:

I am not at the developer conference and am attempting to figure how WO fits into the future of Panther Server..... In all the literature I see no mention of WO. This includes Xcode.

Most of the the Xcode features discussed apply mostly to ObjC/C++/C (i.e., Cocoa) rather than Java development. The Java compilers supported by PBX are from Sun and IBM, so Apple doesn't seem to have as much control over them as they do over the ObjC/C++/C compiler, gcc. So while Xcode does claim to support Java, I suspect that Java development won't be much different behind the scenes than it is with PBX, although the Xcode GUI seems to be quite different.


My question is that the fact that there is little mention of WO with OSX Panther Server. Will WO be supported under Panther Server?

I would be VERY surprised if it didn't.

Aloha,
Art

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