Re: Is WebObjects Dead?
Re: Is WebObjects Dead?
- Subject: Re: Is WebObjects Dead?
- From: Dev WO <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:56:32 +0100
Point taken but my concerns lie in the fact that the HTML 4 spec has
been out for many many years and WOBuilder still outputs HTML 3.2
which makes me nervous.
Yes, you're right Mike, it feels "strange" to have "only" HTML3.2. and
it should be at least HTML4 (or even an option to choose in different
doctype).
Concerning the "many years", it doesn't say that much concerning the
"support" of web browser, for example, CSS2 are out since may 12th
1998! and there are no browser that support them perfectly. Mozilla and
Safari (their respective engine) supports them quite well though, but
not since 1998.
And for exemple, a basic attribut/parameter (the position:fixed) is
still not supported by the latest version of Internet Explorer (IE Mac
"supports" it, but it doesn't support the "a" parameters when in a
fixed div!! so it's even worse). This little parameter would get ride
of these stupid frameset, but just because Internet Explorer is the
most used browser (and the worst one by the way compared to Mozilla or
Safari) some still use frameset...
This is just to say that a spec may be useful only many years after the
"publication"
I'm less concerned with having a fully XHTML site but I'd really like
to see the option to show that Apple is keeping up with the Jones's.
You're 100% right, sometimes I'm wondering if someone works there;)
I can guarantee that if Macromedia Dreamweaver, BBEdit or Adobe GoLive
output HTML 3.2 formatted templates only nobody would use those tools.
A template is one thing, being really compliant is another...
Concerning Dreamweaver and GoLive, they're just amatory tools, you
can't produce a real compliant website with these "tools", if you don't
believe me, just try to validate a page (real one, not a basic thing)
done with these "tools" (the Adobe website is done with GoLive 6, and
not standard compliant at all)
BBedit is a great tool though.
But to make a real website, you must know the language (HTML/XHTML,
CSS), here's what I'm saying when someone doesn't understand why
Dreamweaver isn't a real tool:
"When you want to speak to let say a spanish, don't you think an
electronic assistant isn't enough?, so how can you believe talking
"Web" with Dreamweaver..."
There are other consideration behind having a non standard compliant
website (so the use of these "tools"), like licence fees, political and
ethical view, but it's not the point here.
It just rings of not being well developed by Apple. I realize
there are numerous factors involved in changing WO to be more
"current" but to start a project and try and convince peers it's worth
risking on a large project is hard to do especially when the tiny bit
of marketing hype Apple and the authors of the books out there always
point to are Fortune 500 websites like Disney, Adobe, and the BBC none
of which appear to use WO on their external web sites.
It's not because you're big, earn a lot of money that you're doing the
right choices...even for yourself!
I've just checked:
Adobe: 1 fatal error on the first page (and every page in fact) + more
than 100 error on a single page
BBC: 23 error on the first page
Disney: 2fatal error + 203 error on the first page!
The people in charge of these website aren't professional, they don't
know anything about Internet, and they highly ruined the future of
Internet by not respecting the standards and the freedom of choice of
their users...
There are many people that use WO, Apple itself for the ADC site, for
the iTunes music store, for the Apple Store, Omnigroup, and many other
in Switzerland for exemple.
I do agree that Apple needs help regarding communication on its
products, and should promote a lot more their technologies, and also
people that use them...
Xavier
I guess they could all be using mod_rewrite but who knows.
Mike
On Feb 25, 2004, at 7:43 AM, Dev WO wrote:
If I can just give a point:
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